Could Cedric Ogbuehi be an option for the Seahawks?
If you missed yesterday’s first round you’ll find it here.
For me it comes down to two areas for Seattle in round two — offensive line and receiver. I think they’d ideally take a wide out here. John Schneider’s background is in Green Bay where they regularly stock up on receivers in the second round. In Seattle they’ve already taken Golden Tate and Paul Richardson in that range. It’s a good year for the position and I think there’s a chance they move up a few spots to get ‘their guy’ (whoever it may be).
Because they’re picking late in the round there’s also a chance we see a rush on the position and maybe the options aren’t great beyond pick #50?. In that scenario I think they’ll end up taking the best offensive lineman left on their board. They did it with Justin Britt a year ago and they’ll know they can fill a hole at guard or center at #63, even if they make a bit of a reach.
What about the other positions? I just don’t see a defensive line pick this early. There aren’t any standout options here and as we discussed with Tony Pauline recently, there’s going to be a few rough diamonds available in the mid-to-late rounds. By signing Ahtyba Rubin and Demarcus Dobbs they’ve replenished some of the depth up front. We could see Kevin Williams return. There are still veteran edge options on the market and they could bring in a Frank Clark or another D-liner later on.
Let’s not forget — they haven’t lost any key defensive linemen this year. Twelve months ago Red Bryant, Chris Clemons and Clinton McDonald went out the door. The depth compared to 2014, if anything, is actually improved with the addition of Rubin. Yes they need to replace O’Brien Schofield but he had two sacks last season and minimal impact. They might be banking on Cassius Marsh picking up the slack. They will add here — I just don’t expect it to be early. Schneider and Carroll have a much better hit rate on defense in the later rounds.
I don’t see any reason to go corner in round two and after that — you’d have to be talking about a player you just can’t pass up. They drafted Christine Michael in the late second round in 2013. I doubt there’s anyone that enticing where they blow needs and just go for it — but you never know. I’m struggling to even think of a candidate where that would be possible. I wouldn’t expect them to push it for Maxx Williams for example and Shaq Thompson had a disappointing combine even if he’s very versatile.
I’ve not included any trades in this second round projection but I do believe it’ll be an option for Seattle, especially considering they own eleven picks and five in rounds 4-5. You can still exploit the value in those rounds with four picks. You still have a late third rounder. If conceding one fourth rounder is the difference between getting a player you really like in round two and simply a player who fills a need — you have to consider it.
#33 Tennessee Titans — Breshad Perriman (WR, UCF)
The drops still bother me, even if he had an explosive pro-day. We always knew he was a great athlete. Still, the Titans don’t have enough game changers on offense. If they’re really trying to build around Zach Mettenberger, they need to give him a variety of weapons.
#34 Tampa Bay Buccaneers — Cameron Erving (C, Florida State)
I could see the Buccs moving back into the first round to make this move. They take Winston with the first pick, they have great options at receiver. Now they need to protect the investment. Erving snapped to Winston in college — doesn’t it just make a great deal of sense if he’s there?
#35 Oakland Raiders — Ronald Derby (CB, Florida State)
The Raiders take a corner capable of playing in the slot or outside. He’s not the biggest but adds a nice option to a defense that faces three short-passing attacks in the AFC West with a lot of crossing routes.
#36 Jacksonville Jaguars — Tevin Coleman (RB, Indiana)
The Jags lack a feature back and while Coleman isn’t the kind of burrowing power-runner Gus Bradley watched in Seattle, he’s a dynamic playmaker with the ability to make plays every week. He can carry the load when he needs to.
#37 New York Jets — Bendarick McKinney (LB, Mississippi State)
The Jets have a gaping hole at outside linebacker. McKinney has the power and speed to work inside but a few teams have considered using him in space. This would actually be a nice fit and another complimentary addition to what could be a very good unit in 2015.
#38 Washington Redskins — Jake Fisher (T, Oregon)
The Redskins add a pass rusher in the first round and now bring in a much needed addition to the offensive line. You might argue this is too low for Fisher — but Joel Bitonio was very similar physically and lasted until pick #35 a year ago.
#39 Chicago Bears — Jaelen Strong (WR, Arizona State)
They traded away Brandon Marshall and that opens the door to take a receiver with one of their first two picks. They could go with the speed of Phillip Dorsett — but they already brought in former Jay Cutler favorite Eddie Royal to act as a smaller target. Strong is a more natural replacement for Marshall.
#40 New York Giants — Carl Davis (DT Iowa)
He had a terrific Senior Bowl and this would be a nice pick-up for the Giants. They can plug him inside on early downs. He has the size to combat the run and the quick feet and get-off to cause problems as a pass rusher. He needs to be more consistent.
#41 St. Louis Rams — A.J. Cann (G, South Carolina)
I can see the Rams making a big commitment to the offensive line this year. They take Scherff to book-end Greg Robinson and then add a center or guard in round two. They have a few options here but Cann seems to be generating some nice buzz recently.
#42 Atlanta Falcons — Grady Jarrett (DT, Clemson)
Dan Quinn is there to rebuild a bad defense. They get Leonard Williams in round one and come straight back to the D-line for Grady Jarrett. He’s a disruptive pass rusher with enough about him to work against the run. He’s incredibly stout for such a good interior rusher.
#43 Cleveland Browns — Quinten Rollins (S, Miami Ohio)
I don’t think Rollins showed enough at the combine to be considered a corner. Even so, he has the ball skills and stop-start ability to become a terrific NFL safety. This would fill a need in Cleveland as the options at safety are pretty thin this year.
#44 New Orleans Saints — Phillip Dorsett (WR, Miami)
We might see a very different Saints offense next year. It could be a lot more run based with speed the crucial factor at receiver. They have bigger targets even without Jimmy Graham — imagine trying to cover Brandin Cooks and Phillip Dorsett?
#45 Minnesota Vikings — Denzel Perryman (LB, Miami)
Perryman just looks like a Mike Zimmer linebacker. Not a flashy physical talent but plays his ass off, puts his head on the line and hits like a sledgehammer. Not an exciting player but certainly a very effective one.
#46 San Francisco 49ers — Eric Kendricks (LB, UCLA)
We could see a little run on linebackers here. There’s no reason to try and justify this — they’ve lost two possible starters to retirement this off-season and simply have to address this need in the draft.
#47 Miami Dolphins — Stephone Anthony (LB, Clemson)
With all the off-season moves so far the Dolphins have created a bit of a hole at inside linebacker themselves. Anthony has turned a few heads recently and could be a candidate to slip into round one (Green Bay?).
#48 San Diego Chargers — Devin Smith (WR, Ohio State)
Eddie Royal isn’t a great player or anything, but he had a role in San Diego. Smith can replace Royal and add a little extra as a downfield threat. Nobody matched Smith’s production on the deep ball in college football the last few years.
#49 Kansas City Chiefs — Nelson Agholor (WR, USC)
They avoid the position in round one because the options here are good enough to do it. Agholor seems like an Andy Reid type player — athletic, intelligent, versatile. He wins in the short game and that’s necessary when Alex Smith is playing quarterback.
#50 Buffalo Bills — Ty Sambrailo (T/G, Colorado State)
The Bills want to run with power and could use another addition to the offensive line. Sambrailo is big and athletic and has the attitude and personality Rex Ryan will like. He’d be an immediate starter at either right tackle or guard.
#51 Houston Texans — Sammie Coates (WR, Auburn)
Coates is pretty much the anti-Andre Johnson but the Texans need some speed and playmaking on the outside. Someone is going to take a chance on Coates, despite all of the drops and errors. If you get him right he can be special. It’s just an absolutely titanic-sized ‘IF’.
#52 Philadelphia Eagles — Shaq Thompson (LB/S/RB, Washington)
I can just see Chip Kelly drafting this guy and playing him all over the place. The Eagles need a safety and that’s a good starting point. Would you be shocked if he played a little running back too? It just seems like a Kelly move.
#53 Cincinnati Bengals — Tyler Lockett (WR, Kansas State)
Fantastic character, knows how to get open, explosive lower body, deep threat, return man. Lockett ticks a lot of boxes and had a good Senior Bowl. The Bengals use a smaller receiver in their offense and could do with an upgrade.
#54 Detroit Lions — Preston Smith (DE, Mississippi State)
They’re pretty much re-building their defensive front. Smith can play the edge and kick inside. He’s big and they’ll need that without Suh and Fairley. They’ve gone from a stout, incredibly disruptive D-line to a shell. They can address the O-line later.
#55 Arizona Cardinals — T.J. Yeldon (RB, Alabama)
The Cards want a bigger running back who can carry the load — but who? They have a few options in this draft. Yeldon has 5-star recruit talent but underwhelmed at Alabama. He has a ton of potential.
#56 Pittsburgh Steelers — Henry Anderson (DE, Stanford)
Anderson seems like a typical Steelers pick. No-nonsense, stout as anything and tackles well. The Steelers are needing to get younger and re-charge on defense. The offense is set up. Anderson isn’t a flashy player but you can build around players like this.
#57 Carolina Panthers — Owa Odighizuwa (DE, UCLA)
It’ll be interesting to see how teams view Odighizuwa. When he loops inside and attacks the interior he’s a ferocious, effective pass rusher. Working the edge he’s a total non-factor. They need to do something here though with Greg Hardy now in Dallas.
#58 Baltimore Ravens — Dorial Green-Beckham (WR, Missouri)
They need a receiver with Torrey Smith in San Francisco and Steve Smith in his mid-30’s. DGB carries a risk-factor but he also has a lot of potential. He needs to land in a veteran, mature locker-room. This is a great fit.
#59 Denver Broncos — Paul Dawson (LB, TCU)
Not a great athlete by his own admission and that could impact where he goes. Yet on tape he’s a production machine and he’ll have an immediate impact at the next level. The Broncos don’t have too many major needs.
#60 Dallas Cowboys — Jay Ajayi (RB, Boise State)
It seems inevitable they’ll take a running back early. Does anyone really see Darren McFadden as the answer? They invested so much in becoming a power-run team they need a back who will maintain that philosophy.
#61 Indianapolis Colts — Derron Smith (S, Fresno State)
The Colts have to do something about their defense. Safety is a big need and so is slot corner. Smith can fill both positions and he’s capable of starting quickly. The Colts won’t take the next step unless they improve on defense.
#62 Green Bay Packers — Maxx Williams (TE, Minnesota)
Williams just looks, sounds and acts like a Green Bay Packer. They don’t always go for the big-time athletes — and Williams has that mature, self-confident personality they seem to like. He’s a sure-handed target and would excel playing with Aaron Rodgers.
#63 Seattle Seahawks — Cedric Ogbuehi (T, Texas A&M)
Essentially it comes down to the offensive line or receiver. If they don’t move up they might have to take the best offensive lineman on their board. I’ve put down some more considered thoughts below as to why this pick could make sense.
#64 New England Patriots — Michael Bennett (DT, Ohio State)
They need to keep adding depth at defensive tackle. I think Bennett’s a little overrated and that’s why I have him going here. The Patriots are going to struggle to get another Vince Wilfork and might need to go smaller and quicker up front to improve what remains a pretty average pass rush.
Further thoughts on the Seahawks pick at #63
In this scenario the opportunity to move up for a receiver is virtually limited to Dorial Green-Beckham. If you use the fourth round pick acquired from New Orleans, I think you’re looking at a 10-12 pick jump at best. I wouldn’t rule out that kind of trade. If Baltimore’s locker room is a good fit for DGB, I think Seattle is similar in that regard. You’re taking a small swing on a big — albeit troubled — talent. He’s a possible difference maker with unique size/speed.
There are also well advertised concerns not just with his character background but also his fit. He destroyed Kentucky and Auburn but struggled against the tighter coverage used by teams like Ole Miss. You’d need to be convinced he’s ready to compete against Seattle’s big dogs in the secondary. I agree with Tony Pauline when he says he wouldn’t touch him in the top-50. After that? It’s something to consider. It’d only take a small jump up the board to make this work.
I can’t see them moving up for the defensive options available. There are reasons to like Owa Odighizuwa and Preston Smith but essentially both play the Michael Bennett/Cassius Marsh role. It’s not really a need area.
If they stand pat (and we’re not including trades here) I think they’ll take the best offensive lineman on their board and just roll with it.
Cedric Ogbuehi had a rough 2014 season after moving to left tackle. He gave up sacks, he reportedly wasn’t the best worker. Then he picked up an ACL injury in Texas A&M’s bowl game. It’s not really been discussed much but his decision not to declare for the 2014 draft has been something of a disaster.
You can also understand it. He saw Luke Joeckel and Jake Matthews go in the top ten after playing left tackle for the Aggies. Ultimately though it’s hard to imagine teams watching the 2014 tape and noting the injury and slotting him into the top-50.
So why would he appeal to the Seahawks?
Ogbuehi needs major technical refinement to play left tackle at the next level but the potential is clearly there. He looked terrific in the less-pressurized environment of right tackle, physically dominating first rounder Dee Ford in 2013. He has experience at tackle and guard — something the Seahawks like. If you’re prepared to be patient and if you’re confident he’ll make a full return to health — you could be looking at a project with a lot of upside.
He says he can be healthy for training camp. If that’s true, you fit him in at left guard in year one and you let the situation play out. Eventually he could kick outside to right tackle if you want to move Justin Britt inside. There’s also the possibility he replaces Russell Okung at left tackle. And that’s what makes this pick intriguing.
The Seahawks are going to make Russell Wilson the highest paid player in the NFL between now and September. They’re also likely to make Bobby Wagner the highest paid linebacker. Throw in the top contracts you’re paying Richard Sherman, Earl Thomas, Marshawn Lynch and Jimmy Graham and eventually you’re going to have to make a saving. I suspect they’ll view J.R. Sweezy as a priority keep and they’ll probably want to extend Bruce Irvin too.
Okung is also a core player and ideally you find a way to extend his deal. However, his extension is likely to be more costly than Irvin’s and Sweezy’s. If he is looking for a top offensive tackle salary, it might be too costly for the Seahawks. They’ve shown they’re willing to skimp on the O-line — allowing Breno Giacomini and James Carpenter to walk and trading Max Unger. Okung might be end up being a sacrifice down the line.
You could get three years of Ogbuehi at left tackle at a late second round salary before you need to make a decision. By that point some of the bigger contracts you’ve paid out will be coming to a conclusion. Lynch will presumably be gone, Graham will be nearing the end of his deal.
Even if you work out a new deal for Okung it doesn’t stop you just continuing to use Ogbuehi at guard. It just gives you that extra bit of flexibility because he can play multiple positions.
He’d need to get stronger, much stronger. Hand placement can be improved as can his base when setting his feet to work the edge. You see flashes but not a lot of consistency. He does have ideal left tackle size (6-5, 305lbs) and enormous arms (almost 36 inches). Teams are going to love that kind of length and look beyond some of the flaws. You’ve got to love his kick slide and mirror skills when he’s really on it and he can handle speed.
I’m not totally sold on the Seahawks going in this direction but it’s a possibility we should consider and discuss. If they can’t trade up to target a receiver or if they choose not to — someone like Ogbuehi could offer you a cheap alternative to Okung for the long term and at the very least a capable addition to the interior offensive line.
I think ideally you find a way to get a receiver here (trade or no trade), eventually re-sign Okung and go with a cluster of offensive line picks later on. There are so many good, athletic options for Seattle and Tom Cable in rounds 3-7. Yet as noted, even if you keep Okung for a few more years, there’s nothing stopping Ogbuehi playing guard. If you can’t get a second round receiver, this at least makes some degree of sense.
I know the evidence and reason for the apparent interest in DGB, but personally I think Dorsett could be an option to trade up for as well. Remember in the super bowl how our receivers couldn’t get any separation? That’s where Dorsett excels.
I think I read that Dorsett just ran a 4.25 forty. If so, that might require a more significant trade up.
this is true. there’s also speculation he will go in the late first round. my reasoning was based on this mock draft.
Dorsett is fast, once he gets open. If he gets open.
In the NFL vs. physical defenders, that may not be as easy. I also wonder about his injuries, his ability to stand up to higher level competition.
There’s a long history of 4.25 guys that don’t pan out.
Dorsett is the same as he was before he ran a 4.25. Every scout worth their salt knew he was the fastest guy on the field. My understanding is that every scout also knows he has limited route running ability at this point and that he’s got inconsistent hands.
True, but there is also a long history of NFL GMs falling in love with flat-out speed and the potential that it offers
The issue is — this projection with Dorsett going at #44 is probably a worst case scenario for the player. He may go higher. Even at #44 it’s too high for Seattle to trade up. They can’t jump 20 spots without giving up some serious compensation.
Agree with you Tanner. In the scenario of trading up to the 50-56 range, I would love to see DGB & Dorsett as the picks, if they’re available. At 63, the value is gained if we get Funchess or Lockett.
The 2 types of WR we need:
Size Mismatch / Large catch radius
Speedster / Punt Returner
I disagree, Kuya. They have size mismatch already with Matthews (and Graham). How much more of that do you want? Waller would be the guy to target, more upside than Funchess.
Speed is good, but Lockett is, in my opinion, not special, not unique, and there are many who can return and play WR. Lockett isn’t even that fast. He ticks the same boxes as many, about as well as many, and is worse in terms of hands, technique, physicality vs. big defenders.
I think the Hawks need the outside Y receiver with some speed (and some height, not a smurf) and and the Z receiver with quickness and route running.
The punt returning can be gotten any number of ways.
I’m not totally sold on Matthews to solve our size mismatch issue long-term. He did have a coming out in the SB game, I’ll give him that. I would love to see him do well. In terms of talent, Funchess beats Matthews and would be on a 4 year rookie deal, whereas Matthews is on 1. We need long-term depth at WR and Funchess would be the luxury pick at 63 if he’s available.
Lockett is underrated and could be a gem for a team that is looking for a poor man’s Percy Harvin
Matthews is on a 3 year deal
Funchess is more talented than Matthews you say… Based on what evidence, exactly? I saw Matthews abuse two pretty good NFL corners (Ryan & Arrington), out muscle the biggest, baddest CB in the NFL (Browner), and completely alter a defense’s gameplan. It’s on Bevell and the coaches that they didn’t continue to feed him or at least use him to draw coverage, but he was beasting out there and the Patriots were scrambling. I know it was only one game, but when was the last time that a Seahawks WR was just completely unstoppable? He was having a Calvin Johnson-esque impact until Bevell went away from him. That ONE display was unbelievably impressive, even if it was only ONE. Matthews’ TALENT is undeniable, the only question is if he can do that again, and if he can do it consistently.
Funchess is a nice prospect, I will grant you that – but I can’t wait to see how Matthews does in 2015 and beyond because he’s proven what he’s capable of on an NFL field.
I agree that Chris Matthews showed some promise. I really hope he develops over this offseason. He said in a radio interview that he had tried SO HARD to emulate other WR’s like him…Calvin Johnson, etc…size wise, and finally some one got through to him that THIS offseason he should let go of the ‘others’, and focus on just being himself. That sounds promising to me…
Imagine if we do take Devin Funchess, Chris Matthews develops, and oh, uh…….we have that Jimmy Graham guy too? WOW
I feel we should “Double Down” on the big WR/TE hybrid. If we take Funchess, he will be a WR/TE mixed player with WHO as his mentor??? Oh yeah, Jimmy Freaking Graham!?!!
IF JG could help teach Funchess to “post up and rebound” anywhere close to how JG does it, we would be lethal in the redzone…LETHAL… With Lynch and JG and Funchess??? Dude
Not to mention another WR pick like Conley, or McBride, or Hardy …
Red zone threats….Graham and Willson as TEs, Matthews and Funchess/ Waller on the outside, Lynch and Wilson in the background. Good look stopping that.
It’s tempting to have ALL the players – but we went 1st round on big redzone killer. I would rather get that Guard/Center that Bevell/Cable will trust to get the yard we need. I want MORE running yards, it’s an advantage game and right now the rest of the NFL is so heavily pass focused. Other teams are paying pass rushers, pass catchers, and pass coverage guys. We can and have been able to RUN because defenses are weaker against the run than they ever have been before. True run stuffers are fewer than they ever have been, so the advantage lies with run blockers and running backs.
If anything has become clear over the past 4 years, it’s that this FO has patience.
They weigh more heavily who the WR will be after 2 years in the system rather than what he will be in year 1 game 1. Not that a day 1 starter is a bad thing or not considered, but they have the patience to develop players with exceptional and unique physical talent.
It’s not only about the “hole in the roster” that we have this year, but also about where that hole will be in 2-3 years.
Let’s take Tate as an example. It took Tate 2 full years of part time play before he blossomed in his third year.
Tate isn’t a prototypical X in any way. He’s not tall, he’s not a speedster, and he’s not an exceptional route runner. His best production on the Seahawks was playing the X. His best production on the Lions was playing the X.
This past season, we didn’t miss Tate specifically as the X, but we missed the exceptional Golden Tate that had average speed, average height, and average routes, coupled with exceptional hands and some weird impossible-to-tackle talent.
The problem is that all of the draftniks, pundits, and critics think that players fit into roles. That’s in the box thinking. “We really need a dominant X WR.” “We are missing the move TE.” “We need a change of pace back.” Inside the box.
I’ll tell you how the FO feels about where to play Jimmy Graham, and it’s not at the X position or as a move TE. They are going to play him where Jimmy Graham does best. Jimmy Graham’s role on this team will be to be an impossible single cover for the defense. That’s it. They’ll line him up as the X, as the Z, in the slot, in line, and I doubt anyone would be surprised if they put him in the backfield at HB as an experiment once in a while to force the defense to adjust. They’ll almost certainly do some crazy motion with him. We’ll probably find out that he’s more than an adequate blocker as well, when used correctly (downfield).
As for this draft? They’ll take the WR that has excellent hands; they don’t have to be big, just soft and strong. Probably, those hands will snatch the ball out of the air and move it away from defenders. The player will have a unique physical attribute, be a gym/sports fanatic, exhibit an extreme work ethic (in the gym, on the field, in the classroom, or in the personal life), and have a lot of pride in how they’ve clawed back from daunting circumstances (family struggles, rough childhood, return from injury, recovery from poor decisions/illegal activity).
Value will come where production falls standard deviations below pure talent: a player whose skills aren’t utilized by scheme (Kenny Bell), a player returning from injury (Gurley), a player denied opportunity due to off the field issues (DGB), a player with who has changed/will change position(Nick Marshall), a player who had late physical development (Shaquille Riddick), a player who had the skill lightbulb turn on only recently (Conley? Riddick?).
But they won’t be drafting for an X, a Z, or a slot. They’ll be drafting a guy who can catch, and then finding out, like they did with Tate, how many places/ways they can use him.
*Cheer* Nice response JJ
Rob, from your 2 round mock, I see Devin Funchess as our pick at 63. No trading up required. I remember the combine photo of Pete & John, and my bet was they were taking notes on Funchess.
Cedric’s health scares me. Big guys like him do not recover from ACL injuries as easy as smaller guys. With the depth of OL in this years draft, I see them addressing it in rounds 4-6.
Worth noting — Justin Britt had a serious knee injury at Missouri.
Funchess had a thoroughly underwhelming combine. I wouldn’t rule it out completely but it’s hard to imagine PCJS being wowed by that work out in Indy.
Good point about Britt. However, he’s playing a less premium position than Cedric / Okung. Cedric will need to be nimble enough to face the DLines of the NFC West.
I agree that Funchess had a subpar combine. I don’t think they were wowed either. I felt they were looking for a 2nd round WR and noted the prospects that would be available. If I remember correctly they shot the picture of PC/JS right after the slow 40 of Funchess.
I spent a lot of time (maybe too much) trying to figure out Frank Clark. Leaving my thoughts on Clark aside, I came away fairly impressed with Funchess after watching a couple of entire Wolverine games from 2014.
I know he had a miserable Combine, but his game play, over the course of an entire game, is notable. He finds soft spots in coverage, can catch passes from the likes of Gardner, and has the size to create his own space. He doesn’t have seam-busting speed, but he doesn’t need it. I know this may sound strange, but he reminds me of a taller Anquon Boldin.
I suppose Graham makes him somewhat redundant, but then again, what’s wrong with fielding 2-3 (or even 4 with Willson) 6’4″+ receiving targets.
As for Cedric. I like him a lot. I know he had a rough 2014, but he’s as close size-wise/athletically to a prototype LT as you could hope. Carp leaves a bad taste in the mouth for Bama OLers, but I think Cedric could be an immediate upgrade to Carp at LG (if he’s healthy) and could replace Okung in 2017 and beyond.
Funchess would be like Anqoin Boldin in my opinion, and his usefulness comes from what team he is put on.
R u telling me, anyone here, that RW wouldn’t love another HUGE target to go w JG?
He would! …and since we have JGraham now, that makes all the other “pass catchers” on the team better simply by his demand on defensive coverage…
I agree, it’s all about mis-matches. A defense can match up against most formations with a single bit target. Put a big guy on both sides and you’ve created a problem for most defenses.
However, I’m not convinced that 2nd big target is Funchess or even Matthews.
That’s the game now. How big do we need them to be?
DGB is 6-5 & 237 lbs, and runs a 4.49-40. That is great size/speed, but he has only 9″ hands at that size. He only jumps a vertical of 33.5″. His arms for a 6-5 guy are short at 32.5″ arms. Also his strength for a big guy only yielded 13 on the bench press…
So compare the ability here to Chris Conley and Devin Funchess:
Chris Conley is 6-2, 213, 4.35-40, 9 7/8th hands, 33 3/4th arms, 45″ Vertical, 18 Bench press.
Devin Funchess is 6-4, 232, 4.5-40(Pro Day), 9 3/4 hands, 33.5″ arms, 38.5″ Vertical, 17 Bench.
compared to the supposedly dynamic and amazing DGB:
DGB is 6-5, 237, 4.49-40, 9″ hands, 32.5″ arms, only a 33.5″ vertical, and a low 13 bench press.
I’m amazed at how much attention DGB is getting. He may as well turn out to be a great player in the NFL, but if look at those numbers both Chris Conley at 6-2, and Devin Funchess have a WAY larger catch radius than DGB. Then you throw in the off the field issues of DV and smoking hard core drugs, then why not as someone has suggested here, just take Conley or Funchess at #63?
Both would ass new fresh blood and power to our offense. Esp since we have Lynch back and have added Jimmy Graham. Can you guys even believe that? We got the third most scoring player since 2011!!!!!! Dude! Now we number 1 and 3…Lynch and Jimmy… If we added either of Funchess/Conley, I feel our team would make a great stride forward!
Then take Bell/McBride/Hardy to fill it out…
The biggest thing to me is the vertical. DGB is bested by Funchess by 5″…and by Conley by 11.5″!!! That’s insane.
Not that Conley will be on the field jumping 45″ for a pass from RW, but wouldn’t that be a great tool to have? A guy that CAN jump and make plays for a QB that tends to err on the side of high passes?
Not trying to be an ass but having all that talent really doesn’t work when the QB’s lying on his back or holes aren’t being open for lynch to be a threat. The big reason for Dallas rise last year is the fact they invested in the OL.
Funny you mention being an ass…where does that come from?
I of course want to draft 3 or 4 or 5 OL! But as we have seen, they seem to have success with mid round picks. OL has depth this year. If we took Devin Funchess at #63, then at #95 took another WR like Justin Hardy or Chris Conley, our WR depth and playmaking would be much improved.
Then use all those 4th and 5th round picks to build that OLine. Marpet, Crisp, etc…
I just feel that we went to a Super Bowl last year w Unger out 10 games, a rookie RT in Britt, so if we add 4 strong drafted OLineman, we will grow there for years to come. 11 draft picks really helps! If we had 7, then 2 WR’s might be extravagant…but with 11, heck maybe we get Waller in the 5th!
Funchess, Conley, Waller!!! 2/4/5
It’s a bit of a chicken-and-egg argument really.
Without a #1 receiving threat, defenses can leave their corners in man coverage and load the box against the run. Having 8-9 defenders playing the LOS also allows for more blitzes, stunts, delays, etc.
Adding Graham will alleviate this to a certain extent. Defenses will be forced to play their safeties deeper to help out against a receiver like him. Adding another receiving mismatch further opens the field, and forces teams to rush the passer with only 4 instead of 6 or 7.
As for a mismatch receiver – that can be any special attribute like size, speed, agility, git, or any combination thereof. Funchess is a R2 talent. His size and relative speed/agility make him a mismatch for defenses. I’m not saying he’s our guy at 63. But we could do worse.
At any rate, SEA can reload both position groups in this draft.
*grit
Double coverage for grit? The Seahawks could just bring back Brian Russell and he could cover the grit receiver 1 on 1.
If you want him to look even worse…throw in the numbers for Waller!
Thanks Rob; interesting read as always. I like the pick but I LOVE some of the value we could be getting with a small trade-down into the early third, combined with a medium trade-up from our native 3rd pick. I’m thinking pick R2 for high R3 & R6, then low R3 & R6 for a mid R3.
Picking in the high R3 range AND mid R3 range could allow a combination of Marpet/Gallik/Grasu and McBride without me feeling like we reached too far. OL and WR improved and then wait to use the Saints pick in R4. What do you think?
I think this sounds great. The only problem is you’d have to find 2 trade partners: 1 willing to help you first move back then another to move up.
If the general consensus around the league is that that there is a lot to be made in the middle rounds… finding 2 trade partners might be more difficult than you think.
Agreed Brian – I’m just enjoying living in fantasy land for a few weeks until the draft becomes real and I get brought down to earth!
With the comp picks, moving from #63 for Chicago’s #71 and #142 and then trading #96 & #167 for Detroits #150 (who doesn’t have a 4th or 5th round selection) could make this work. Chicago only has 6 picks and they may not want to give one up.
I think it might take more than a sixth rounder to move up to the mid third round. I’d also fear paying more to move up than you did to move down.
The depth is so good on the O-line right through the rounds that I’d be tempted to let the draft come to me for those positions. I think the main thing about round two is with a small move up you might be able to get a genuine impact player who grades considerably higher than the prospects available from #63 into rounds 3-4. But it’s good to discuss the different options.
Thanks Rob – this is the place to have those good discussions! Hopefully V12 returns soon.
I get your point about waiting for the draft to come to you, but maybe making an exception in round 2.
One thing that really sticks out for me is just how devalued quality interior OL appears to be coming out of college compared to the contracts for the interior OL veterans. I’d be interested to see if the following theory is true, as it would really help valuing positions in the draft:
– Tackles are highly valued in the draft, and tackles are highly valued when it comes to free agency contracts
– Guards are seen more as commodities in the draft, but guards are highly valued when it comes to free agency contracts
If this is true, why would you ever sign a free agent guard? I’d need some help from other readers to validate this and extrapolate to other positions!
I agree, UKHawkD. Missing on Sambrailo would be the biggest disappointment in Rob’s mock, but I am not sold on the importance of many others. Don’t like Og for a number of reasons. It may be better not to fight the board and take Grasu/Marpet.
Personally I think you would be fighting the board to take Grasu or Marpet. You’d be reaching to fill a need there. I’d understand it but would have to accept that’s what I was doing.
I’m sold on taking a versatile linemen if a good one is available. Gotta love Ogbuehi’s size, and you don’t get to play left tackle for the left tackle factory without some skill and potential. I’m not sold on using our first pick in the draft on him though. I read about his performance during the college season, and the consensus seemed to be that he was just flat out bad a lot of the time. Then you toss in an ACL tear. I don’t know he’s worth the risk. There should be some impact players within range who are less risky, because I’m not convinced so many receivers will be drafted this high for a second year in a row. There’s less demand for them, and they aren’t as good.
I think in the late second you’re going to need to compensate if you want a high talent/upside pick. For example — injuries/2014 performance with Ogbuehi, character/struggles vs press with DGB. And yet if those concerns weren’t evident they’d both be in the top 10-15 as we expected a year ago and not a possible option for the Seahawks in the late second. The thing I like with Ogbuehi and DGB (or one of the other receivers) is they at least give you a chance to get a great player.
Too many red flags with Ogbuehi though. Not only injury/performance but like you said “he reportedly wasn’t the best worker.” Huge alarm bells there. It sounds horrifically like a Carpenter/Bowie or worse redux of guys that aren’t as completely committed as they need to be to play at this level.
I would prefer avoid character flags on the OL when we’ve already had so many issues there already, and it’s not like the upside of having guys like that on the roster goes any way in compensating for their faults. Our line has still been relatively terrible with them in it, so it doesn’t seem worth it.
Seattle hasn’t been scared off suspect work ethic. Tharold Simon is a classic example. If they see potential and if they believe the guy will work — they’ll do it. They aren’t risk averse.
I think the Seahawks FO had a bit more insight into Tharold Simon’s work ethic than any of us. Just because his coach posted that he was late to the gym or practice at least once in his senior season doesn’t mean the guy has a suspect work ethic.
He dislocated his shoulder late in the season, so badly that the surgeon couldn’t get it back in on the field and he had to walk to the locker room with a dislocated shoulder for a more aggressive reduction. He was available to play two weeks later (albeit very limited by the injury) despite needing surgery. In my book, that’s not a guy that doesn’t have a good work ethic.
Yeah I’m quite aware the Seahawks have been willing to roll the dice and I’d feel better if it was a talented player in the secondary who can be ridden and inspired by the guys on the LOB. But it’s not like Simon hasn’t also exposed some of the downsides of taking a guy with suspect work ethic. He obviously doesn’t prepare himself when he’s expected to be a backup as well as he should, as both his appearances in surprise relief demonstrated. Sometimes the LOB does have to ride him to get his mind into practices and such.
I’m just saying the offensive line can ill afford to add someone with suspect work ethic because of what we have experienced there with Carpenter why replace him with someone with equally suspect work ethic if not more? The downside of suspect work ethic for an offensive line guy poses different set of risks than a DB in my opinion, because they’re at a far higher body weight where they eat a lot more yet need to be concerned about diet and conditioning in the off season with a greater sense of urgency than guys 100 pounds lighter. That makes suspect work ethic translate into a high injury risk when they show up overweight. Exhibit 1A: Bowie. It’s hard for me to justify taking talent over suspect work ethic when it comes to OLmen for that reason. The talent means nothing if unrealized, and it’ll never get realized if they’re constantly injured.
Good point about how far Ogbuehi and DGB have fallen in terms of draft stock. We really are taking about guys who wouldn’t have even been in consideration if things had worked out a little better for them. Beckham’s problems are of his own making, obviously that’s important to remember.
I like Ogbuehi, he reminds me a lot of Okung when I look at him, with that slim build and freakish arms. I wouldn’t be unhappy to see him taken at #63 because he obviously has potential. I’m just not completely sold on him because of all the chatter I heard last season about how disappointing he was. That’s really hard to reason with and find excuses for. You can say DGB was just immature and in a bad situation. You can excuse an injury because they’re rarely career threatening anymore. Consistent poor play is just a killer. This a decent value pick in the scenario because all the other good offensive linemen and all the receivers are gone, and the next tier would involve reaching. Personally, I think there will be better options within range on draft day. I also think Ogbuehi could fall way further.
I like the idea, Rob. Given that it looks like our only significant needs are interior OL and WR, where the draft is deepest, I’m okay with making a luxury pick at #63. You talked about Gurley being that pick a while back, but I think it makes just as much sense to use that pick on Okung’s eventual replacement. He’s a good — not great — LT, but the bill comes due soon and I just don’t know that you can depend on him staying healthy. Use 3rd and 4th on “need” picks like a C or G and return specialist, etc.
I’m going to do a seven rounder for the Seahawks this week. I think they could even go luxury in round three too — and then hit Guard, Center, return specialist and D-line in rounds 4-5. By luxury I mean taking a possible D-liner or even tapping into the running back class.
Is Ty Montgomery one of the guys youre looking at in those rounds to address our return game need?
Yes
Last year I had one guy I LOVED, I was All-In for Kev-in (Norwood)!!. This year there are three…
I’m Fly for Ty (Montgomery)!
I’m Sick for Nick (Marshall)!!
but mostly,
I Be All Cray for DeAndre (Smelter)!!!
Sorry, I’m a bit punch drunk from not sleeping. Good Blue Friday to you all!
Don’t know if you saw this football outsiders article on WRs Rob:
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2015/playmaker-score-2015
Thought it was interesting. If Super Mario is really a projected 7th round pick, I think that would be a steal.
I like it Diggs was the 2nd top sleeper which I took in the 6th.
Overall, I agree with the Seahawks taking either a OL or a WR. But, maybe we are focusing on the biggest needs, but not the biggest value available at #63. I think OL would be the safest pick for Seattle, but they could roll the dice… really take a swing and grab a RB, TE or DL.
I find the Funchess speculation particularly intriguing, trying to recreate a facsimile of the 2012/13 Patriots offense. Have 2 or 3 outstanding TEs.. and killing the center of the field with big and athletic TEs. You can skimp on the outside WR, if you can pound teams on the inside… and is Graham really going to be on the line or slot that much….
A running back, such as Abdullah would also be incredibly intriguing in the Seahawks offense.. not an obvious fit, but a ton of upside.
Maybe they could even double down on big receivers… and go Waller… but if my draft darling Dorsett is available (via trade), just do it and feel good about it… in the Seahawks War room. Then go ahead and pick OL in round 3.
The thing that comes to mind though is Russell Wilson has not targeted the middle of the field much at all, which could mean he prefers targeting the outside and therefore it’s more important to find a good outside receiver OR he hasn’t targeted the middle because there are not worthy targets there, but with Graham and maybe a funchess, he would target the middle enough to exploit that size. Only one way to find out!
Rob, you have painted a pretty terrible scenario here—one I really hope does not play out.
In this scenario, with Sambrailo gone (too high to trade up for), then I am not at all sure if Ogbuehi is the best O lineman available. He is inferior to Sambrailo, for sure.
I would take Grasu at #63, the second best center in the draft, and a likely starter, a guy who can anchor the Hawks for years to come. Other possibilities are Marpet, Tomlinson, Tre Jackson, D. Williams. How do they compare to Ogbuehi? For that matter, how does Ogbuehi compare to possibilities much later, such as Quetin Spain, Rob Crisp or Laurence Gibson?
Ogbuehi has played at a high level in the SEC (2013) and has the ideal length and size to play left tackle. He just needs technical refinement. In terms of potential and upside he’s in a different league to those guys — and I speak as a big fan of Rob Crisp.
Grasu would be an option even if it’s a bit of a reach (IMO).
I still believe its Danielle Hunter baby!
I like the Cedric pick…plug him in at left guard and get his feet wet then let him move to LT next year
Greg, Hunter doesn’t show any pass rush technique on film. He mauls and fights, but doesn’t seem to penetrate. He wasn’t even the best pass rusher on the team. Jermauria Rasco was, and Rasco, a marginal prospect, at least optimized his limited skills. So the question on him remains, can Hunter’s frankly lousy technique be transformed? Can his freakish structure be utilized better, so that he becomes like J.Pierre Paul? It will take a hell of a lot of work. No immediate starter with him, and a potential bust.
I can’t fully disagree with you. Just look at all of Johns first picks…they all leave you wondering g what just happened. The dudes a freak though…trying to think outside the box.
Not a lot of 1st rounders to get a good evaluation, don’t ya think.
Thing is, he has close or better athleticism and length to Clowney, at about 10-15 pounds lighter. He has the frame to add those pounds.
If he showed technique, he’d be Clowney – last years number one overall pick. He wouldn’t get out of the top five.
If you are looking for a superstar defensive player, it is hard to get those guys in the second round. I know Sherm, Kam and Bobby make it look easy, but its not. Sometimes you have to take a risk.
I think one reason why Seattle is so good at drafting is the emphasis we put on character – team captains and the like. Guys whose best football is in front of them, who will capitalize on the resources the NFL presents them. Not just athletic freaks but also character guys. If we meet with him and decide that he has the character to improve – to use pro coaching and training to make good on his talent, I’d be all for drafting him at 63
they really wouldnt need him to log serious snaps until 2017 anyways…and the kid wont turn 21 until october
If Schneider and Carroll speak to the kid, speak with his coaches, do background investigation, and conclude he has the drive/work ethic to make the most of his skill, why not?
This is a kid that could have a Greg Hardy/Robert Quinn impact.
2 words: Venom Gholston
2 more: Bruce Irvin or we could do 3 words: Jason Pierre Paul. Always a risk to get value, but using a 2nd round pick on an athletic phenom isn’t exactly outside the realm of possibility for this FO. See Michael, Richardson, Tate, Irvin (if we include 1st round). Of those only Richardson had the production to go with the athleticism.
Which is why you do the homework on his work ethic and character.
Ogbuehi is one of the 2014 SEC leaders in sacks allowed. That by itself is pretty damning.
Wow. That makes me think he’s being vastly overrated if he can’t put his talents to work preventing sacks in college.
Its not about Ogbuehi the college player though – its about projecting what he could do in Seattle with Tom Cable and Pete Carroll. He’s a rare athlete at the position, his athleticism would be put to use in Seattle’s scheme. His coaches, in Seattle, are among the best at making the most out of an athletic lineman. I can see the attraction.
It sort of is about the college player when it comes to pass pro. Run blocking is a skill that can be coached up, and Cable has demonstrated the ability to do this with guys that are raw. Pass blocking is whole different story. It’s a different skill that seems to rely more on natural ability more than anything that can be coached. And obviously, Cable doesn’t really have the best record there with coaching guys up in pass pro and changing the conventional wisdom.
Ogbuehi’s struggles giving up a high amount of sacks in the Aggies Air Raid offense would definitely be a flag that this guy naturally struggles in pass pro as it stands. If I’m the FO I’d be looking for someone that’s a more natural pass blocker than Ogbuehi for Cable to coach up.
This pick came out of left field, following your inner pc/js I see. I don’t see it because I think he starts the season on pup or even IR. I would hope for a trade down if this is how it plays out.
I haven’t included trades in this mock. If I had — I’d probably have the Seahawks moving up using a fourth rounder.
I figured that was the case. You talked about that a couple times. With the team never trading up it would have to be for someone they really like with a high ceiling even with some bust potential, it is the end of the second and players with high ceilings and low bust potential won’t be there. Cmike comes to mind and dgb would be a cmike type pick to me.
OK Rob. No teasing. Who would you have them pick if they moved up?
If many wouldn’t touch DGB in the top 50, I’m not sure it would make sense to trade multiple picks for him shortly after that number. In a way, trading two picks for him would be like potentially trading Michael Bennett (OSU) AND Darren Waller for DGB (or any combination of two good available players). And I think Waller is ever bit the prospect that DGB is too (or if he’s gone; Chris Conley).
I don’t think Sambrailo will be gone by the time the Hawks pick This isn’t at all offensive but it seems like you like him better than most everyone else but the true judge will be in less than a month and where he actually gets drafted. Maybe I’m wrong (certainly wouldn’t be the first time).
As usual, great conversation piece. I’ve thought about Ogbuehi more than once, too. The fact that he could perhaps play LT next year (’16) is enticing. Okung usually gets hurt every year (and struggles in pass pro) and I can’t see the team paying top dollar to keep him either. I think if they had a legit OL or two that they would pony-up the cash to keep them, it’s just that they haven’t had overly good ones to want to keep either.
I don’t know that they skimped on Breno or Carp. I think both players were simply not anywhere close to worthy of the contracts the Jets were dumb enough to give them. There’s a reason the Jets are worthless. I can’t say there are many Seahawks in the history of the franchise that I thought less of than Carp. Granted, my expectations were different of him being a first-rounder than some clown who was supposed to be bad like Etric Pruitt.
Bobby,
My only thought about the acceptability of trading up for DGB was the idea that the Seahawks could take a chance on getting a monster player if they intended to also draft some combination of Bell/Waller/Conley/Montgomery to provide assurance that they get 2 solid competitors at the position (my choice would be Bell/Conley) with the additional possibility of getting perhaps one genuine star.
In other words, I think there are mid-round options that have a good chance of working out, allowing a second round swing for the fences at a potential star.
I like the general idea of one higher percentage receiver and one “swing for the fences” upside pick. I’m not sure I honestly prefer DGB over Waller or Conley, though, and they’ll probably both be available in an area where we already have like 5 picks waiting.
Honestly, I don’t really big get the DGB love. He’s got t-rex arms, a really questionable history, has shown basically zero technique or production on the field when he’s not abusing Kentucky, and in terms of athleticism he’s actually average by SPARQ score (he actually has negative Z score! ).
All I can figure is, he’s 6’5 and people have heard of him. Because to me it looks like he’s got a really, really high chance of busting.
I hear that! I’d way rather have Chris Conley or Tre McBride over DGB…
Both Conley and McBride are consummate workers with high characters…match them w RW, and boom! For 4 years on a rookie cheap contract we have symmetry and cohesiveness…
I don’t get the appeal of trading away 2x lottery tickets for 1x more expensive lottery ticket. This draft has some very unique talents at WR. There’s Conley, Waller, Montgomery, Bell, DGB, Perriman, Funchess, Smelter, Diggs, etc, etc… Get two or three of them and see what happens in camp. Just because a guy is a projected 2nd round pick doesn’t make him a better future player than the projected 5th round pick. Trust the scouts and just get the guys that make the team better and more athletic. The best high school athletes are all playing WR and QB now, so these draft classes are insanely deep with WR talent. A guy like Ty Montgomery would have been a RB or a DB in previous years, now instead of being a top-5 RB – he’s around the 20th best WR in the class and available in round 4-5.
The earlier they go, the better tools they have and statistically the higher chance they become successful.
Yeah, despite the occasional success of late round players, a teams best chance of finding 5 year starters is in the higher rounds. Even first round has its share of busts but by the time you get to round 5 it is an 80% bust rate. Which is why the Seahawks will need 11 picks to find 3 starters.
That’s looking at it statistically, not realistically from a Seahawks perspective. A lot of teams take flyers on athletes and headcases that don’t take coaching or do something stupid. JS doesn’t believe your statistics either, he invests on flaws that won’t matter and unique individuals that are undervalued. The coaching staff also develops EVERYONE, they don’t give all the practice reps to the players that were highly drafted, they give them to all of the rookies, UDFAs and futures guys (CFL, AFL, etc) included. It’s about development in Seattle, it isn’t the same everywhere else. Go back to the pamphlet they sent out last year and you’ll see what I’m getting at. JS has a drafting advantage in the mid/late-rounds because Pete Carroll will coach all of these guys the same, no matter where they come from (CFL, Arena league, UDFA, 1st round, highly paid FA). I want JS to have more lottery tickets in the mid-rounds because he’s got better odds than the house in those rounds.
While the rest of the NFL drafts high-probability busts, he is drafting players that do something unique, that will benefit the team. Or players that have a flaw that is irrelevant to the Seahawks, because the player won’t be exposed due to scheme or coaching or whatever else. It’s why Sherman and Maxwell made it to the 5th/6th round – they were very flawed, but who cares because what they did well (what Seattle wanted them to do) – they did at a 1st round level.
Rob thanks for the work and write up on each pick. It really helps to understand the logic behind each pick. I think most make a ton of sense and that really is too bad for the Hawks.
I firmly believe that the only two player we should move up for are Dorsett or Agholor. If either slides into a range where we can trade our 4th round pick from NO to get one of them then it is a no brainer for me.
Both Agholor and Dorsett would be dynamic in the kick / punt return game and start day #1 at WR.
I really think given his poor season and injury that Cedric could fall to our pick in the 3rd and I would run to the podium for all the reasons you mentioned. I would even go as far as letting him redshirt for a year to get back to full health as I feel he has 1st round size and athleticism.
I still believe we will sign a veteran Center (Myers or Wis) and if not we can pick up a guard / centre in the 4th and 5th.
I bet PC’s son is banging the drum for Dorsett. It will be interesting to see if he is successful in bringing any of his boys from The U across the country to Seattle.
I thought this was interesting and made me think of Sweezy….
DT Ellis McCarthy: UCLA Pro Day: Junior defensive tackle Ellis McCarthy was down one pound (337) from the NFL Combine and stood on his times from Indianapolis. Exclusively a defensive player at UCLA, McCarthy worked out on both offense and defense on Tuesday for scouts. – Dane Brugler, NFLDraftScout.com
.. but was Cable in the building watching the workout?????
He’s had a horrid off-season and reportedly looked poor at that pro-day. Shame, he had/has a lot of potential.
If you are looking for a 7th round pick or UDRFA he might be worth keeping in mind…. nothing a little Cable coaching couldn’t correct…. except for the weight. Seattle has taken a swing on bigger sized guys, such as Bowie and Bailey late in previous drafts or as UDRFAs.
I like Cable as much as the next guy but people need to stop suggesting that he’s some sort of miracle worker.
Rob, I also see LEO being a glaring need for the team. O’Brien Schofield is gone and he was the main backup to Avril. We all see what happens when Avril leaves the game. Avril isn’t exactly a spring chicken and the team needs a LEO of the future. The LEO of the future was Bruce Irvin until he settled into playing SAM. I think Cassius Marsh is the Michael Bennett of the future. Hau’oli Kikaha is my favorite player in the draft. Forget that I’m a UW homer and that he’s from my hometown, and also forget that he’s not the greatest athlete and has some injury concerns… he simply knows how to get the job done. He’s overlooked because of the reasons mentioned and also for the fact that he struggles in coverage and teams are probably looking at him as a 3-4 OLB. But he is the NCAA sack leader who has done that in the PAC 12! He did this against very good competition. As Seattle’s LEO, he would be basically playing the same position he played in 2013 under Steve Sarkisian (Pete Carroll disciple). I think he would be perfect for Seattle.
I think DE is a need — but O’Brien Schofield contributed two sacks in 2014. Replacing him should be fairly simple and could come in the form of a veteran free agent or mid/late round pick. Avril is only 28 and signed a new contract extension just a few months ago — he’s not a player we need to think about replacing right now. Very few teams have the pass rush quality Seattle has in Bennett/Irvin/Avril. Two of those players are signed up long term and I suspect Bruce will be too. They just need a Schofield replacement.
I like Kikaha as a warrior-style pass rusher with great hand technique. But he lacks get off, athleticism and length — three of the key things you look for in a LEO.
I think Kikaha flashes everything you’d want in a pass rusher, but only in pass rushing. The rest of his game is suspect. On a team that only requires a situational, he’s a good option, as long as you don’t overpay to get him.
Clayton, I’m with you on the LEO of the future. Problem is, this is a bad offseason for it. The surefire pass rushers are all in rd. 1/high 2. After Eli Harold, there is a huge dropoff. The middle round guys are frankly not exciting—Orchard, Hunter, Mauldin, Golden, etc. Some of them can’t even pass rush. There are intriguing options lower down in small school sleepers. And there is Frank Clark. Just a tough one.
Fair points.
So I noticed the Raiders cut Antonio Smith and I’m thinking he could be a possible solution to the pass rush depth. I REALLY hope the team brings him in because he had a comparatively down year last year but he’s been consistently a top 5 interior rusher regardless of scheme even though he’s played more 3-4, in Houston he played two years in the 4-3. And while he did poorly against the run there that’s not his forte either, the pressure he brings against the pass more than make up for it.
He’s the kind of complement you would want to signing Rubin for run stuffing depth.
Smith is strictly a situational pass rush specialist, but in the area of that expertise he’s definitely been elite.
Arias, Smith was a pass rushing force with the Texans. Did he put on weight with the Raiders? Anyway, I think he would be a reasonable choice for the Schofield role. It would solve a lot of problems if they signed him to a short deal.
Well he’s gone. Broncos got him. I knew he’d get snapped up quick, guys that can do what he brings are just too rare to find in free agency.
He didn’t put on weight with the Raiders, he did go back to playing in the 3-4. But he was still the pass rushing force he always was with the Raiders, he just sucked against the run and shouldn’t be in there as a run stopper. Broncos landed a badass if they rotate him in just to rush the passer.
Could be an option for sure, although Houston appear to be very interested and in pole position.
I have thought all along that Kikaha will be the selection at #63 if he lasts that long, which I doubt.
In a JS recent interview he stated how they are looking closer now at how prospects finish. Kikaha is a great finisher. He is vastly underrated at getting off blocks and making the tackle or redirecting. (Watch the SB tape) Some shoestring tackles butt he has grit and gets the job done.
For having two ACL surgeries he has a great bend rounding the corner. I think he has the best hand use and technique of anyone who will be drafted ahead of him.
I wouldn’t mind a trading down 2 spots with greenbay and taking Maxx williams. Greenbay likes to trade down and is a likely trade partner. Miller was a big part of are offense and williams is the most like him in the draft maybe even the nfl by skill set. We got graham but he’s more of a receiver and having graham, willson and williams would be a great te group. Imagine graham and mathews out wide with willson and Maxx at te with lynch in the backfield. It covers a need now and in the future imo. We could evolve with the passing te’s without losing are identity as a power run team.
Maxx looked improved in his pro day, there is no way he is making it until the bottom of the second. Teams have needs for TEs and this guy is the most complete one coming out of college. But, I like this idea/way of thinking.
I’m sure your right. I was just going of the mock. The TE conversation has gone away since the graham trade but I think it’s still a need and should still draft a te.
I have no problem taking him, if he is available and is the best player according to their draft board. You can clean out the 2-3 other TEs (not Graham and Willson)… that have been hanging on and not contributing much to the Seahawks offense.
I think Heuerman out of Ohio State could play the same role if we miss out on Williams. We could potentially get him in the 3rd or 4th round.
I like him to but in the 5th the earliest. This te class is real week you have williams as a 1st tier and almost no 2nd tier
Here is a one hour analysis of Ogbuehi, the good and the bad. This film shows him at LT:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-rNIOWWzck
He is more of a finesse player than a mauler who finishes. Can he be coached to be more aggressive and consistent?
I think, as Rob points out, he is better at guard, where some of his deficiencies would be hidden.
Rob, what do you think of Donovan Smith? Better OG than OT, can play both.
Weight fluctuation bothers me, as does a few reports on his character. There are guys I much prefer in the middle rounds.
Nice mock Rob. To bad all my value favorites are gone by #63.
A few days ago I did a mock draft on fanspeak and ended up taking the same player at #63. I like the idea of using high round picks on value positions, such as LT. I drafted Cedric because he was the best available OT in my mock.
If we trade up ~ 10 spots: I’m only swinging for the fences. DGB/Gurley…
If we stay at pick #63: I’d rather go best O-line starter available.
If we move down a few spots: I like the idea of turning the jets 6th into a high/mid 5th.
I know Rob is doing a full 7-rd draft in the next few days. Any thoughts on Miami TE Clive Walford? While he isn’t a burner, he is good at blocking. 6’4″, 250 lbs, 10 1/4″ hands. I think he could block and run the shorter routes. He is coming off an MCL tear but he could sit below JG/Willson and battle it out with McCoy and the others. I think he fits as a 6th rd pick.
I think they’ll avoid TE altogether in this draft. They’ve got Graham and Willson as a solid 1-2 punch and hopefully McCoy stays healthy. It’s a bad crop of TE’s overall and adding another seems like a bit of a wasted move unless you really, really believe in the guy. Walford for me looks sluggish. A bit like he’s running through sand. I think he’ll be fairly league average at best.
I agree with rob except with williams. He’s the only one I would really want. We need a 3rd te and even if Mccoy is healthy he hasn’t played in 2 years. That being said he won’t be available for us but I think they bring in a good blocking te to compete but if all he does is block I’d rather have Gilliam.
I predict Gilliam is working his ass off and will show up at camp having gained 15-20 pounds and a lot of functional strength. Throw his ridiculous SPARQ into the equation and I think he may take over RT, allowing Britt to move inside to LG, which is a better position for his abilities and short comings.
We got Allen from practice squad. They seem to like him
Allen has been specifically mentioned by Pete a couple of times this offseason, they seem to be very high on him. I think he’s competing heads up with Anthony McCoy this offseason for the Y-TE position. Luke will probably play there a bunch too, but they’d like a more well rounded (better blocker) guy there I think and certainly they’ll keep at least 3 TEs total. So, if Rashaun Allen can overtake McCoy – we’ll be saying goodbye to the hop step motion man (I’ve missed that these past two years) I think.
I like the idea of Cedric at 63 – he’s athletic and versatile. I have concerns with his injury, but looking at the other O line in that range, he might have the most upside.
Grasu is the other O line guy I could see taking at 63 – I see that Rob isn’t so sure on the value of him at 63, but since it is a position of need, if he somehow ends up at 63, I’d take him.
Great thoughts and mock.
One thing to point out…DGB will not be drafted by Baltimore.
GM Ozzie Newsome who is VERY open with his draft intentions has said it’s unlikely they draft any player with “domestic abuse in their background.”
There’s also the recent history of cutting players with legal troubles which support the idea that Baltimore doesn’t want to get anywhere near players with character concerns.
Very true – on Baltimore.
I see the thinking regarding Baltimore post-Rice, however I think they will still consider a move like this.
What about using #63 on Laken Tomlinson? He seems a mauler and brawler like Cable prefers, and he has good size. My trade up picks would be for Diggy or Henry Anderson.
Actually, I like the Ogbuehi choice, even if he is not able to play this season at all. Luxury pick.
As always, wonderful work, Rob.
The more I think about it, and the more I read, the more certain that Seattle will focus on their greatest deficiency – the passing game. And the most deficient element of the passing game, WR.
Most of the starting defense returns. They have made moves in FA to plug starting roles (at CB) and depth at D-line (all starters returning). TE/QB/RB are good, with starters and depth.
As of right now, I would assert they have one locked WR, ADB, and we would all prefer to see him as the 3rd WR, and not shadowed by the league’s best CB (with all due respect to Sherman). That leaves 4-5 roster spots open at the position. Right now, the following would be competing for those spots:
1 – Kearse. Certainly he can be improved upon. The GB game was a killer until the final TD
2 – Lockette. Do we want to see him targeted ever again on a crucial play?
3 – Matthews. Many of us have the highest hopes for him, in part because we haven’t seen him play poorly. But the sample size is so small.
4 – Norwood. Ditto, we haven’t seen enough of him not to have hope.
5 – Richardson. Probably starts the year on the PUP list. Maybe he returns and plays well.
6 – some other guys we haven’t see play at all, so we can hope for them as well.
With this in mind, I can see Rob’s notion that the Seahawks may trade up on the 2nd round for an impact WR. There is an excellent chance that someone they really like falls within range, given the depth at the position.
As for the target, I doubt it will be Dorsett or Lockett. Wilson needs larger targets, IMO, ones he can throw high and away. Heck, he damn near overthrows Willson, and Baldwin needs to sky half the time to make a catch. He and Graham were made for each other. Even though Tate wasn’t that tall, Wilson knew he could throw it high and Tate would go get it.
So DGB would be an option. Not sure who else in the late second.
I think Kenny Bell will get drafted by Seattle, in the 4th or 5th. The same way I thought they would take Earl Thomas (every draft scenario I could imagine) and Bruce Irvin (although I thought in the 2nd round at the earliest, not the first). Bell is not flashy or a high-profile target (as far as I can tell) and I believe his draft position will be fairly easy to project, allowing JS to wait on him.
Having said all that, I think this year’s Bruce Irvin is Chris Conley. Due to his gaudy combine numbers, and his character and on-field ability, there is no telling where he will be drafted. So my 4/1/15 Seattle draft prediction is that they will trade down into the 3rd round, and then select Conley with their first pick. They won’t mess around and risk losing what I expect they will see as an exceptional talent and athlete.
Here are a couple of links for Conley. The first is CBS. The second is a scouting report from the Jets website (one that doesn’t really support my prediction, rating him as an ‘average’ starter. The third is a youtube link provided on the same Jet’s site. Check out the first catch. Very Beckam (sp) like.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1824756/chris-conley
http://www.ganggreennation.com/2015/2/23/8089395/scouting-the-draft-chris-conley-wr-georgia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JCpy8G1AhY&feature=youtu.be
If they traded down with their #63 pick and then got Conley… that’d be awesome. I’d love the extra pick in perhaps the 4th round. I think having even extra picks (extra-extra picks) would allow for an added risk guy like Clark to be one of them since they’d have so many picks they wouldn’t have to “count” on that particular pick like some teams with limited picks have to.
I like the kid from Clemson better than Clark. I don’t think they take anyone with red flag’s and that includes DGB.
I think they’re open to character flags. They had a discussion about Greg Hardy after all. Nobody off limits to an extent.
Tell me what do you do with the WR when Richardson comes off of the PUP list. Your going to have to cut someone.
By that time, the situation will have changed, due to injuries if nothing else. Regardless, you bring Richardson back and release the lowest rated guy on the roster. Easy peasy.
1 – Kearse. He has shown up when the lights were brightest, definitely has a spot
2 – Lockette. STer, he really shouldn’t be in the WR group.. could be a camp casualty
3 – Matthews. Coming off early season injury, shown up in SB. 1 Game does not a career make…
4 – Norwood. Coming off of injury, should be a quality WR. He has a spot.
5 – Richardson. Coming off an Injury, shown flashes of outstanding play making ability. He has a spot.
6 – ????
I think there are 2-3 spots up for grabs, when you factor in the FA WR, draft picks and trades.
Lockette and Mathews will both be in a fight for a spot on the roster. Heck, there are only 3 healthy battle tested WR going into the summer. The more I look at it, the more I think they will go with 2 WR or 1 WR/1TE in the draft.
To me, it’s not so much how many spots are up for grabs. I think all of them are, in the sense that there currently isn’t one WR on the roster that can’t be improved upon. The only reason I think ADB is locked is because he can fall to #3 on the depth chart and still start.
It’s all about competition, and there are WRs in this draft that can beat out any player already on the roster. That being the case, I can see Seattle drafting three of them in the early/middle rounds, each one of them with a shot to make the team. There is so much opportunity for improvement that you could hardly add too much talent in this draft.
The same goes for the offensive line, but there are more options in the middle to late rounds that it’s not necessarily necessary to take one prior to the 4th (IMO). But the same logic holds. Draft 3-4 offensive linemen and see who wins the jobs.
This approach still leaves a boatload of picks for the other positions, while focusing on adding potential talent to the two major needs.
For example, they could draft Conley, Tre McBride and Kenny Bell in the 3-4 rounds (having traded their 2nd round pick down into the 3rd). With that trio, you could have a competitive camp at the position.
Then, if players like Waller or Montgomery fell to the 6th, they could use one of those picks on these prospects.
Finally, use the 7th born DeAndre Smelter, or try and get him as an UDFA.
If you like the later round guys, but they don’t make the team, they can likely make the practice squad.
I like the idea of getting Smelter. He could have been a 1st round pick except for injury. He could be a huge addition down the road. I also think someone is going to select Tyrell Williams in the 5th or 6th rounds. He’s got the tools to be a great WR, even if he’s coming from a small school.
I disagree completely on Kearse. Sure he has made some clutch catches but way to many drops. He is a poor route runner who rarely gets any separation and has just average speed. If we draft a couple quality WR there is no way he should be on the roster at a 2.2 million cap hit.
Trevor I agree w you. I would LOVE to see 2-3 WR’s drafted and see them beat out Kearse in training camp. I don’t want his inconsistency on this team anymore…great plays made are sometimes just making up for earlier routine plays that should have been made…
@ Hawksince77 – if we drafted Conley, McBride and Bell —holy cow!!! Watch out NFL!
We would be set up for years with those rookie contracts, and our WR corp would now be scary!
Add in TE JG, and we will be making some points this year! I’d love it!
I also agree to be sneaky and try and get DeAndre Smelter on our team, maybe with the 6th comp picks? We could IR him and have another new WR stud for next year 2016!
Sunpath I am huge Smelter fan as well. I watch GTech tape to get more info on Waller and the guy who really stuck out was Smelter.
He is big, athletic, huge hands (biggest of all wide receivers) he is a good blocker and has only been playing football for a couple of years as he played baseball.
I really hope we take him in the 6th or 7th and red shirt him for a year. I think in in a year or 2 he could be a #1 receiver.
I would be ecstatic if they go Bell and Conley. Bell is simply a great football player. Conley has the tools to be a #1 WR.
Me too – and Bell has the return skills we need. If we go OL in the second, that first 4th round pick would be ideal for a guy like Bell. Conley is obviously a super athlete, and I’d be happy to see what we could do with him, but I haven’t seen that he can help in the return game. I haven’t watched enough tape to see what Conley’s upside is.
DeAndre Smelter is the other guy I like as the taller athletic WR in maybe the 6th or 7th – Waller was my first “love” at the GT WR pick this year, but I fear he’ll be drafted higher than Seattle has him on the board. Smelter is coming off an injury, but he is a competitor – and I think he and Russell could have a good connection with their baseball background.
Yeah. If we can get Conley and one of Bell/McBride/Agholor I’ll be ecstatic. I have a suspicion they really, really like Conley.
I hope u r right Dawgma. If Seattle sees Chris Conley as a potential #1WR, then adding him and Bell or McBride together would be potent…
Imagine a 4 receiver set with Conley and McBride out wide, Jimmy Graham and Baldwin in the slot…
How would you defend that? Not to mention BeastMode in the backfield, or coming out on a delayed pass? Man! We are going to be tough!
I could see McBride making the team as KR/PR guy and working into rotation. Conley I fear would more than likely not play for a year due to lack of experience playing for A running based offense. I lack knowledge as to Kenny Bell so I’ll be looking at him more now. Kind of hard to know who has done PR/KR when its not mentioned in their evaluations because that’s a WR I would target but Seattle absolutely needs one.
I love Kenny Bell. Ridiculous, very technical and detailed skills in every aspect of his game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19OVxvFhZyY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD3j1Lti8Z0
Small shifty moves to get open. Catches with his hands. Ferocious run blocker. Excellent returner. Some of the best measurables of this draft class.
I am a big fan of acquiring Conley. He is a SPARQ freak with good height and great length and hops. His catch zone is insane. His speed is ridiculous and will stretch defenses while creating cushion for easy underneath production. He can run by anybody AND play in the clouds! He is a smart, high character guy who demonstrates a solid work ethic. Modest production can be attributed to playing across from Amari Cooper in a run heavy Georgia offense. Low risk, tremendous upside!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4fbcN54bOQ
Amari cooper??? Strike that! My wires got crossed….
Wait a minute… you said a lot of important stuff (I’ll go back and re-read that stuff) but you also inferred that Sherman is NOT the league’s best CB. I cannot understand that, especially from a Seahawks fan. He is better than Revis in every measurable way, to include game breaking plays and targets. There is just nothing but the mystique of Revis Island, that would suggest otherwise. Sherman is also better than Deion Sanders was by every measurable piece of information available. That said, I am not ready to knock Deion down off the pedestal. Sherman will have to sustain his excellence a few more years to push Deion for that #1 all-time status (Darrell Green is #2 in my book, but Sherm is #3). Sherman makes game altering plays and dominates guys to go along with the statistical anomaly that he is in this passing era. He stands alone statistically, Revis is the leader of the #2 pack though – down there with Joe Haden and company.
Rob, nice work. I agree that will draft DL mid to late rounds. Who else do you like besides Clark? I thought the below looked Seahawk-ish on NFL Combine site. Good length and numbers.
Later round Seahawk DL targets?
Derrick Lott
Martin Ifedi
Ryan Russell
Geneo Grissom
Deon Simon
Bobby Richardson
Tyeler Davison
Also, I have a feeling that Hawks will target Tre Mcbride. If you do a side-by-side with Paul Richardson’s combine numbers, they look very similar. I thought his tape looked decent too.
McBride is a really nice prospect. Will be very interested in his career.
I’m going to do a bit on later round pass rushers soon.
Also check out Tevaris Barnes.
Hey Rob, thoughts on Daryl Williams? CBS Sports has him rated ahead of Ogbuehi. Combine numbers look decent. Per NFL.com, “Physical … Though guy… Buries defenders … Outstanding football character and overall character”. Sounds like a Tom Cable guy.
Definitely an option. Massive, similar to Carpenter. Good length. One to consider.
I agree, defiantly one to consider.
I’ve been looking at him over and over and even had him on my list of OL and he hasn’t gone up or down in all the draft mocks I’ve seen is a 4th round pick whether that’s at 112 or 130 is the big factor. He was my pick at 130 but that be overkill with the mock I made so I left 130 for trades to get the OL men I like most.
I’ve been looking at mock draft everywhere, writing them down then looking up the players. The worst mock I saw had Seattle taking 1QB,1RB,1TE,1DE,1C,1LB,1T, and 4CB. Now why on earth would Seattle take 4 CB after bringing in 2 FA CB’s? Anyways, I won’t sit here and babble about all the stuff I’ve look at to eventually work this draft. So moving on. First off I just WR corp being as bad as everyone has made it out to be. In fact its already better than before with Jimmy Graham being here cause we surly didn’t bring him to block. I also like the FA pickup Douglas McNeill III from the arena league where stuff happens much faster on a short field. My main concern is the offensive line for the next 3 years why we still have Beast Mode. I all in for giving Cable some talent to work with and coach up and keep the price down until some contracts get finished.
63 Ali Marpet C Holbart : He may need a year for position change and talent level but with Cable’s ability I have no fear he could be an All Pro Guard for years to come whether at guard or center.
95 Ty Sambrailo G Colorado St. : You have him gone by this time but that’s not what I’ve seen in most of the mocks I’ve seen and my gut thinks for some reason he will fall to this spot. He would make a perfect guard and if not I would grab another and settle for a Terry Poole at 167 for guard.
112 Lorenzo Mauldin LEO Louisville : You want pass rush well this is the guy to take you there and he’s built like Chris Clemens with the right attitude.
130 This is the funky part of my draft. This is the pick that I use as trade bait to make the 1st 3picks happen
134 Christian Covington DT Rice : He got everything to do the job except the time in. Probably should had stay in school another year but its tough to do when you’ve graduated already.
167 SenQuez Golson CB Ole Miss :Gave up money and baseball for his love of football. He has all the talent to be a Pro Bowler except for his height. I like him as a Nickel corner for covering pesky receivers like Eldleman. He perfect fit for Lane’s spot.
170 Laurence Gibson OT Virginia Tech : He fits right into ZBS as a tackle but need coaching in his hand use and a year in a pro weight room for more core strength ever category at the combine was great except for his reps.
181 Stephen Diggs WR/KR/PR Maryland : Has the 2nd best all purpose yards for his school history. All you have to do is get the ball into his hands and he becomes a different kind of player.
209 Kyshoen Jarett SS Virginia Tech : This is the type of player DB Coaches hate on paper but love on the field. He’s shorter version of Kam that would take Johnson place on special teams right away.
214 Blake Bell TE Oklahoma : He has all the tools but only one year experience. This is a practice squad guy with the nickname Belldozer. Started college as the QB for his 1st 3 years and put almost 6,000 yds passing and 69 touchdowns so he must be smart. We are heavy with TE this year but it wouldn’t hurt to have one in the works for the future.
248 Alan Fua OLB Baylor: This guys a versatile hybrid like Kam who’s played in a lot of different postions. In many ways he like Kam but 2″ taller at the same weight. He just rings out Seahawky to me and he’s still growing.
UDFA SaQuan Edwards CB N.M. : he has the measurements but he also has the baggage of a run in with the police in which the charges were dropped. You bring him in sit down and talk to him about it and if you don’t feel good about the interview let him go . no harm no foul.
So for fun lets say I didn’t have to use the pick 130 to make the first 3 draft picks come true. What player would you take?
With OL needing so much, I couldn’t imagine a better pair of interior prospects than Marpet and Sambrailo.
But WR needs a lot too. Much more than just Diggs on Day 3.
Mauldin would be a good value in R4, but maybe at 130/134 instead of 112. He does have that “pissed off for greatness” air about him.
Thanks for input. I could be wrong but Seattle has brought in 4 WR in FA and release 1 Walters. Jimmy Graham can and will spread out allowing Seattle to throw a Luke Willson and McCoy inline as TE and what a matchup nightmare you’ll have. I think well be fine.
I guess the ongoing question is whether the existing WRs are good enough.
The wisdom says that it takes a year or so to develop a WR. Unless I am mistaken both PRich and Norwood caught everything near them. Both of them have real potential to contribute to this offense. That they were not world beaters in the first year is not a condemnation for them. Norwood has decent size and ran a 4.46 at his combine. Does that not compare well with some of the players we are coveting?
What I am saying is that the need at WR is maybe not as great as some of us have been suggesting. I see greater needs at OL and DL. I would also like to see another CB. Maybe Julian Wilson in the later rounds.
I like Julian Wilson a Lot.
We need a returner – with Walters gone. He didn’t give them anything in the return game, but caught the ball.
I do think Seattle will draft someone with that ability – we don’t have that on the team, even on the practice squad. So unless they really believe BJ Daniels is a return guy, I would expect we draft one. I like BJ too – but he doesn’t have the speed for the returner gig.
I agree. I think Seattle is OK for now with the big receiver’s they have on their roster. I could see them bringing in Waller as a possible TE convert. We need a game breaker in the return game and someone who can stretch the field. There are more than two options in this draft.
I just want to make sure RW isn’t on his back because its really hard to throw from there.
OL to me is their biggest need, but then grabbing a WR/returner is next for me. And it happens this is a deep draft for both – so might as well take advantage of it.
They already upgraded the return game with their first official signing in FA. They signed Will Blackmon. He is a very good returner and returns both punts and kickoffs. He will be competing to make the roster as a CB, but has the edge over all of them because he is a good return man.
I like the 63, 170, 209 and 248 picks.
I actually like the 163 pick as well, a smaller CB not fitting into the typical Seattle CB mold. Slightly smaller and quicker, not necessarily faster.
Pick 214 is intriguing, the QB aspect specifically. I think they will take someone who has that ability as a secondary trait (see Nick Marshall). Everyone got focused on Seattle taking a “QB”, when they might take a guy who does something else and happens to have been a QB.
Not to rain on everyone’s parade, but I’m fairly sure that OT Sambrailo will be gone by pick 95. There were too many scouts at his pro-day for him to make it deep into the 3rd round.
When I was looking at one mock I saw Ali Marpet at 76 and Sambrailo at 80. My thinking is trade back into early 3rd grab Marpet and then trade up to get Sambrailo. their must be some way for me to get both that’s why I left pick 130 open. If it falls this way without using that pick I have another player I take sitting in the wings. Thanks for insight. The Bell pick is not so much A QB but he understands a QB but I take him because he a Big man with soft 10″ hands who’s working on his blocking with a nasty streak and I like that.
I’m thinking there is way too much smoke around Ali Marpet now. I beginning to think he might be gone before Seattle picks….. at #63. Perhaps it is an agent or other teams trying to pump and dump him…. or trying to get an additional draft pick out of Seattle (or another team).
At this rate, them sneaky Browns might grab him… since they like my picks. : /
This is starting to happen more and more. The OT are usually bigger and more athletic but some of them just don’t fit the bill in the pro’s as OT but they are better athletically than the guards we see in college. So we are seeing a teams draft layer round OT to move inside and there’s been some big success like a Zack Martin of Dallas.
SEA has one of those kinds of “QB” types in BJ Daniels.
Nonetheless, I really like Nick Marshall. Would love it if SEA drafts him.
I think both Sambrailo and Marpet don’t last until 95. Ditto Grasu.
I’m not drafting bell for QB He’s to dam big now. So he was switch to the tight end position for his last year. A very raw who showed lots of potential halfway thru last year.6’6″ 252lbs 331/8″ arms, 10″ hands, 4.8-40,14reps,33″vj,116″bj, 4.32-20yd shuttle. He became the Sooners red zone brute and He showed ability to catch the ball in those big mitts of his. He a project but he’s smart, coachable, and loves the game to change because he had to.
Ladarius Gunther is the CB I see Seattle picking in the 6th round. Not a lot of hype but has the measureables
Gunter’s arms are half an inch shorter than the unspoken cutoff of 32″.
Also, he didn’t test very well at the Combine. Not sure he’s quick enough to fit in SEA’s cover 1 scheme.
Rob, I do have to wonder if you and many of us 12s find more value in Sambrailo than others. It’s hard to tell looking around. Right now, if I were to guess, he “should” be available at or around 63. At least I hope so.
I like the pick if there’s no chance to move up, but it’s risky. If we resign Okung later on and Ogbuehi stays at G, then we spent our top pick on the easiest position to fill, in Cable’s system where it’s supposed to be even more easy to find guys and in a draft where there’s lots of guard talent in the later rounds, where everyone else finds their guards. Then there’s the Okung health issues, and with this guy’s background, what if they both hit the IR. But if okung leaves and Ogbuehi stays healthy, and Bailey doesn’t have the talent, great pick.
Depends on what you call “risky”. At 63, nothing is risky. That is a late pick by most measures, so throw the dice. If you don’t hit a winner, not many criticisms that you blew your draft. While it would be nice to get an impact player there, it is not like spending a mid first round pick on a loser.
True, it’s not spending a first on a right tackle, but there are gonna be players in that range that could help us now.
With all this guessing it is almost certain that the actual Seahawks draft will be entirely foreign to what we are suggesting. Ever since JC/PC have been running the building of this team, it has been very difficult to predict what they may do. I fully expect to spend much of draft day saying “who is that”, and “Does this make sense”, and “wow”.
It always happens that way, doesn’t it. “What the?”
I don’t know if this has been linked here already, but http://3sigmaathlete.com/2015/03/31/position-based-value-drafting/ showed a cool breakdown of marginal AV by position by round.
Some interesting tidbits from a Seahawks perspective:
-Rd 2 and 3 tend to be good spots for OL and WR (which many here expect to target at those spots)
-Rd 4 and 5 are not very good for any positions on offense
-Rd 7 has a nice little bump in OL value
-Edge rushers are good value in Rds 3-6 (particularly 4 and 5) and interior DL in 5 and 6
Obviously you wouldn’t want to get to caught up in this or fight the board, but it suggests a good strategy is to go OL/WR in some order with our first two picks, grab some defenders with our mid-round stockpile, and then target a few more lottery tickets on offense late on day 3 (DBs are also good value late as a depth pickup).
I wonder about the (pardon the pun) value of that study. I know it touched on it briefly, but I can’t help but think that what we are seeing is primarily the effect of positional value on draft decisions. In other words, for example, 3rd-round edge rushers are a better value relative to their predicted performance than 1st-round edge rushers primarily (only?) because getting a “hit” at that position is so important that teams are moving them up the draft board even though they *know* they are reaching. Or maybe that’s what the whole thing was about and I just didn’t get it on my quick read.
Say you are a team who really needs an elite edge rusher. How is this going to influence you? You know that a 1st-round TE gives you better odds of a “hit,” but frankly, a really good TE just isn’t worth nearly the same as a really good DE. Your 3rd-round DE might be a better value in the sense that the production will be greater than the cost (3rd-round pick), but you still end up without an elite DE. The fact that it didn’t cost you much doesn’t help much.
I guess the idea would be to maximize value at as many positions as possible, but I’m not sure there is enough difference at every position to make it work. Elite QB vs. average, the chasm is huge. Elite OG vs. average, not as much. Etc.
Could Cedric Ogbuehi be an option for the Seahawks?
The simple answer is no… at 95, yes take the flyer – maybe, although G Tre Jackson of Florida State would be my pick if available.
Ogbuehi never practiced on consistent basis during time in Aggies land… He will tease you, yes and bring external hope for fans… But upon further review there are more accomplished options for Seahawks at 63 that would help the football team IMO…
The Hawks have four compensatory selections they must make, giving them seven selections they could trade. Since this draft is heavy in middle rounds, the brut of selections will go towards stocking team with players that fit their mantra to always compete and hopefully locate couple of special players in process.
Maybe they trade back into third round, using later picks to give them a second, two thirds and two fourths and fifth as the backbone for their attack UNLESS one of the players on their board in TOP 40 slips into 50-to-55 range… That makes logical sense for move to happen… The position under this situation could be outside WR or OL…
John has clearly stated that competitive fire, the love of the game, will be even more of a priority grade for Seattle than in the past. He said, in referring to past mistakes, that the team’s biggest mistakes occurred when falling in love with a player’s athletic potential and overlooking character flags. I think he was specifically referring to Christine Michael, but coming right after the Super Bowl, I think he was also referring to Tharold Simon. Ogbuehi just doesn’t pass muster in that regard. If the draft goes as you project, I would think Laken Tomlinson, the plug and play OG from Duke is the more likely pick. He is a better fit for Cable’s zone that the other top OGs, Cann and Jackson. If Donovan Smith falls to R3, he would be the better developmental LT, in my view. A center can be found in R4, especially given their apparent intent to give Patrick Lewis first crack as the starter.
I think some of what JS said was also directed at Harvin.
I think you have to distinguish between “competitive fire” and “character flags”. They can be related, but they also can be entirely separate. Harvin is a perfect example of a guy who was competitive as hell, supremely talented, but with a few screws loose on a personal level. So he fit some of Schneider’s model to a T, but not all of it….
I think you really nailed that one Lil
You are spot on!!!
You are spot on.
This is supposed to be posting under Football Annalist. WTH.
Maybe too far down the rabbit hole, but what do you think the chances are that the Hawks try to add a pick in the mid-3rd to ease the gap between #63 and #95? That looks like the real sweet spot of the draft, to me. Last year it looks like a mid-to-late 3rd cost an early 4th and a 5th or 6th. We have so many picks at 4-6 I wouldn’t mind dealing the Saints’ 4th and the late 5th or a 6th to get an extra 3rd.
If I was going to trade a pick to move up in the 3rd I’d use our 5th at 130 instead of 112 hell I’d thrown in the 7th at 248 since we have 2 comp 66th rounders.
My 7 round No Trade Mock (In advance of Robs)
Rnd 2 #63 Ali Marpet (G/C) Hobart – He has the athleticism and raw talent to be a future pro-bowler at Center or Guard. If Cable can turn Sweezy into a dominant lineman imagine what he could do with this guy.
Rnd 3 #95 Tre Mcbride (WR) Willam and Mary- Since Dorsett and Agholor will be gone by the time we pick in 2nd round he is our next best option to get a starting WR and Kick returner
Rnd 4 # Shaq Riddick (LEO) West Virginia – This guy has the length and athletic ability to be a future Aldon Smith type of edge rusher. With a year or two to develop I think he could be a star.
Rnd 4 # Chris Connelly or Darren Waller (WR) Both are development projects with #1 wide receiver potential. Waller would be my 1st choice but if not then Connelly
Rnd 4 Comp # Christian Covington (DT) Rice- Another Canadian from Rice coming off a injury plauged draft year like Willson was. He is quick off the snap and gets good penetration. Would add youth to our DT rotation. When Hill went down last year our lack of depth really showed.
Rd 5 Terry Poole (G) Ariz St. Played tackle in college but has the size and feet to be a great guard in our power ZBS.
Rd 5 Comp # Kris Drummond (S) Mich St. We need to add some depth and Drummond would be a great replacement for Jeron Johnson who we lost to Washington. Damarius Randall from Ariz St was my 1st choice but I think he will be gone.
Rd 6 # Nick Marshall (CB)- Auburn He has great length and Athletic ability. Has a true passion for the game. I think Pete could mould him into something special. I like Tony Lippett more as a convert prospect but he will likely be gone.
Rd 6 Comp #o- Kristjan Sokoli (DE) Buffalo – Plays with tremendous passion and has good size and speed. Would make a nice addition to our DL rotation
Rd 6 Comp # Rob Crisp (OT) NC St. – Great development tackle who will be a quality backup at both tackle spots
Rd 7 # Andre Smelter (WR) G-tech – He is injured but has the potential to be a steal if we red shirt him for a year. When watching tape Waller from Gtech it was Smelter who really stood out to me.
Other RD 7 or UDFA Targets
CB Trey Walker – Texas Southern – He has incredible length / wingspan and all the measurables the Seahwaks look for in a corner (He was brought in for a visit)
DL Tory Slater -West Georgia – Very raw but a freak athletically
Z Hodges -Edge -Harvard- I think based on all the talk about his attitude that he will fall out of the draft
I am sure there are also some athletic LB guys we wll bring into compete as well.
Trevor, I like your mock a lot, almost every pick.
I don’t think Shaq Riddick is a rd. 4 unless he has shot up the boards recently. More like a rd. 7. I prefer Ryan Delaire to Riddick. I see both offering similar attributes. And if Hodges does fall, yes, he would be interesting as well.
I like Delaire as well. I guess there were a ton of scouts at his pro day.
I went with Loreno Mauldin from Louisvelle at 112
I’m on the fence about LoMo. In a draft with few good pass rushers, he at least shows some capability. But he doesn’t play with a crazy motor you’d like to see. Louisville had him playing standing up, and in some games, he stands around too much
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8N1s-QuMR0
He is projected at the very spot that the Hawks would need to get their OL and WR, so not sure how that would work out.
It a very good draft that’s well thought out. I can the see the first 2 easily. You get Riddick farther back in the draft but then, hell we took Irving in the 1st rd and we finally found a spot for him. I’m not so sure I like pick 112 to take a couple years to work out again. I think Nick Marshall won’t last that far you swap him with Riddick. I looked at Drummond for a bit and he just doesn’t seem to be physical enough to play up on the line like we like. Definitely needs a lot of work on tackling. I not saying anything bad and its probably just me, but Tall receivers in the 4th rd and being from Georgia scare the crap out of me. We did it before with Kris Durham who as of today is still on the FA list. I’ll be looking up Sokoli and Smelter because I have no idea who they are but then I never saw Coyle last year and I’ll be looking them up. I like it To see others who enjoy the search for that perfect mock draft. A few player I agree with and a few I might look at again. Thanks
Have you been reading my mind?? Several of the guys you have are on my list of Seahawky players. If your mock played out, I’d be very happy. I like Riddick a lot – and I could see Seattle picking him higher than he is slotted – ala Justin Britt.
I’m still looking at my mock, but I figure I’ll post mine when Rob does his.
I keep waiting to hear if we will sign a FA center – that is the one spot that could affect my mock.
Trevor,
Solid mock. Value and need are solved. I really love that we get Marpet, McBride, Conley or Waller, Poole, Drummond, Crisp, and especially the Nick Marshall pick. Marshall is definitely a project, but has the frame, size, length and athleticism that Pete likes. To see him grow in the LOB would be cool to see.
I’d like to see maybe one less DL and WR and see a RB and LB drafted.
Some RBs that may be available Rd 4 or later:
Jeremy Langford, Michigan St.
David Cobb, Minnesota
Javorius Allen, USC
Mike Davis, S. Carolina
Josh Robinson, Miss St.
How about this for a dramatic trade, from:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000483190/article/davis-five-trades-id-like-to-see-in-first-round-of-2015-nfl-draft
Seahawks trade into first round with Texans (No. 16) to draft Todd Gurley
The skinny: Now, I have Gurley going to the Falcons at No. 8 in my latest mock draft, but let’s say they go up and get Williams, and Gurley is still on the board as we approach the midway point of the first round. I don’t see Gurley getting past the Chargers at No. 17, so with Collins off the board for Houston thanks to the Steelers’ trade-up, would GM Rick Smith be open to a move down? The Seahawks don’t have a pick in the first round this year (they gave that up in the Jimmy Graham trade), so a first-rounder for next year would have to be included in a deal with Houston. I know Seattle just re-upped with Marshawn Lynch, but what a great backup and eventual replacement Gurley could be for Pete Carroll and John Schneider. Gurley is a perfect fit for their style on offense. He’s my No. 1 RB in the draft and an electrifying talent. Gurley and Beast Mode on the same team? Yeah, that would be fun to watch.
Nice in fantasy world but they don’t have the draft capital to make it happen unless they give up multiple future 1st round picks. That is a deal I hope they never do as much as I do really like Gurley. Fun to think about though
More reason to Stock that OL with talent. By time Lynch is done we extend Gurley if he becomes what we all think he will be. It would be talked about for years to come.
Should the Hawks be looking for the more nimble athletic type of OL instead of the fat, huge, massive types? Marpet epitomizes the former type. Sambrailo also.
This leads me to check the SPARQ on OL
http://3sigmaathlete.com/2015/03/23/post-combine-sparq-rankings-offensive-line/
One name that emerges is Mark Glowinski. Here is a small school sleeper for you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPPHjrF8Tes
Nasty, finishes blocks. I think he would make a great developmental project.
Selecting Ogbuehi at #63 is too much of a luxury pick to me. There’s no guarantee that he’ll even play a down this season. I understand that drafting him with a late 2nd is like getting a 2016 1st rounder, making his selection somewhat of a value pick. The Hawks Super Bowl window is now, and we need to get a player that can contribute in 2015 with our first pick. Marpet, Grasu, and Tre Jackson are 3 guys who can most likely start day 1 next season. It might be a slight reach to get one of these guys at #63, but they’ll likely be gone by #95. To me getting a day one starter for 2015 is more valuable than getting Ogbuehi who may be able to replace Okung in 2016. Ogbuehi was hyped as an early-mid first rounder going into the 2014 season, but his performance simply didn’t match up.
I’ve been seeing Tyler Lockett going before #63 in quite a few mocks, like this one. Getting bummed that we might not get the chance to take him. He’s been a favorite of mine for quite some time.