The three big draft mistakes that impacted Seattle’s reset

December 17th, 2020 | Written by Rob Staton

The Seahawks are three years into their reset and arguably have not taken many steps forward since 2018.

The massive use of resources this year was an attempt to accelerate improvement but, with three regular season games to go, the jury’s out on whether they succeeded.

A challenging off-season in 2020 isn’t solely responsible for the reset stalling. Their use of high picks between 2018-2020 also warrants a discussion.

2018 — the decision to draft Rashaad Penny

It was the perfect storm.

The Seahawks’ running game had collapsed in 2017. Russell Wilson led the team in rushing. Eddie Lacy had been a gigantic flop. Promising rookie Chris Carson was injured early in the season.

Seattle had lost their identity and a lot of that was tied to their inability to run the ball.

The running back class in 2018 was the strength of the draft. Multiple players were expected to be taken early, starting with Saquon Barkley in the top five.

There was an opportunity to kick start the running game with a high pick at the position. After all, Carson had only played in four career games by that point and had experienced injury issues in college. Adding a player made sense — in terms of philosophy and what was available in the draft.

Everything was set up for Seattle. They only had four picks going into the 2018 draft (and wouldn’t pick again until round four following their initial selection). Trading down from #18 was inevitable. They dropped to #27, acquiring an extra third rounder from Green Bay, and found themselves in the perfect position.

Barkely had been taken #2 overall by the Giants. Every other running back was still on the board. Between picks #27 and #43, five running backs would be drafted.

Seattle had their pick of the bunch.

In terms of executing a draft plan, it couldn’t have worked any better. They filled the gap between rounds one and four by trading down and could now select the player they truly wanted.

As we’ve discussed over the years, the Seahawks have a very particular ‘type’ of running back. All of the players they’ve drafted match a certain size and testing benchmark. For more information, read my big combine preview from February.

We’ve been able to reduce the number of potential targets every year and we’ve been able to hit on a number of drafted players as a consequence.

For example, in 2016 only two players fit Seattle’s criteria:

C.J. Prosise — 6-0, 220lbs, 35.5 inch vert, 10-1 broad
Kenneth Dixon — 5-10, 215lbs, 37.5 inch vert, 10-8 broad

We were able to reduce the entire class down to two players — and identify who they would go on to select.

In 2017, only four players fit their criteria:

Christopher Carson — 6-0, 218lbs, 37 inch vert, 10-10 broad
Brian Hill — 6-0, 219lbs, 34 inch vert, 10-5 broad
Alvin Kamara — 5-10, 214lbs, 39.5 inch vert, 10-11 broad
Joe Williams — 5-11, 210lbs, 35 inch vert, 10-5 broad

Once again, we reduced the group down and found the player they wanted.

In 2018, there was a much bigger list. This was a superior running back class, with several players who fit what the Seahawks look for:

Saquon Barkley — 6-0, 233lbs, 41 inch vert DNP broad
Kerryon Johnson — 5-11, 213lbs 40 inch vert, 10-6 broad
Bo Scarborough — 6-0, 228lbs, 40 inch vert, 10-9 broad
Nick Chubb — 5-11, 227lbs, 38.5 inch vert, 10-8 broad
John Kelly — 5-10, 216lbs, 35 inch vert, 10-0 broad
Lavon Coleman — 5-10, 223lbs, 33 inch vert, 10-0 broad
Rashaad Penny — 5-11, 220lbs, 32.5 inch vert, 10-0 broad
Royce Freeman — 5-11, 229lbs, 34 inch vert, 9-10 broad

Once again we identified the group they would likely pick from and they selected Rashaad Penny.

Ultimately though, this was the first mistake of the reset.

One of Pete Carroll or John Schneider (I can’t remember which) referenced that Penny received their highest ‘health’ grade going into the 2018 draft. I suspect this is what separated him from the pack. Carson, Prosise, Lacy and Thomas Rawls had all been banged up. They needed a durable runner who they could depend on — just as they’d been able to depend on Marshawn Lynch.

The problem is, Penny wasn’t tested in college. He was the starter at San Diego State for only one season.

Prior to the 2017 season, he backed up Donnel Pumphrey. You might recall that Pumphrey was a 5-8, 176lbs running back. It’s not often that a running back with that stature succeeds, however Pumphrey passed Ron Dayne for the all-time NCAA Division I FBS lead in career rushing yards in his final season.

So basically Penny started for only one season in a conference where a 5-8, 176lbs running back was able to set college records for rushing. This was never enough of a challenge to properly judge his durability, yet it appears to have been one of the determining factors.

We’ll never know for sure but I suspect Seattle would’ve taken Nick Chubb had Penny been unavailable.

Chubb had everything they looked for in a running back. He had the ideal ‘Seahawks size’ at 5-11 and 227lbs. He was highly explosive — jumping a 38.5 inch vertical and a 10-8 broad jump. He was no slouch either — running a 4.52 forty and adding a 4.25 short shuttle.

His combine performance was an absolute masterclass. A dream performance you’d think from a Seahawks perspective.

On the field he was incredibly physical and tough. His running style was a perfect fit for Seattle’s offense. He dominated for multiple years in the SEC — helping lead Georgia to the National Championship game in his final season.

He’d also overcome great adversity. Chubb suffered a horrifying knee injury in 2015 but returned to play two more seasons in college. He was rusty in 2016 but the following year, he was back to his old self — as shown by a sensational performance against Oklahoma in the playoffs.

The knee injury — and the possible feedback and medical checks they’d done on it — might’ve been the difference maker. After all, Penny hadn’t experienced any setbacks like this (but he also didn’t play much until 2017).

The thing is, Chubb had already come back and played two more years. He didn’t miss any time after returning and was a picture of durability aside from that one freakish moment.

If anything you’d think the adversity he showed to fight back from that injury would give him a fantastic off-setting grade in the ‘grit’ category.

The Seahawks took Penny and Chubb was selected by the Browns eight picks later.

Chubb has missed four games in his NFL career in three years. He played a full 16 games in 2018 and 2019. He missed some time with an ankle injury this season but has since returned faster and stronger than ever.

Here’s his statline (yards/touchdowns) since returning from injury:

124-2
108-2
126-1
114-0
144-1
80-1
82-2

He has 3371 rushing yards in two and a bit seasons, 27 total touchdowns and is clearly one of the best runners in the NFL.

Cleveland’s entire offensive identity revolves around Chubb and Kareem Hunt.

Rashaad Penny meanwhile has missed 21 games in his NFL career. He has just 789 rushing yards and six total touchdowns. There’s very little confidence in him to emerge as RB1 next year, with Chris Carson set to reach free agency.

This was a very avoidable error. Chubb is basically the poster child for what a Seahawks runner should be. It’s not a mere convenience to point to a great player they passed on and say they should’ve drafted him. Chubb is everything they look for.

Had they taken him instead, the Seahawks could have the running game the Browns currently possess. They’d also have the security to not pay Carson next year because Chubb would still be under contract for two more years.

Perhaps they saw a poor mans Todd Gurley in Penny? After all — he showed real ability as a receiver and a returner at San Diego State (things we haven’t seen in Seattle). Gurley at the time was setting the NFL alight.

Yet ultimately this feels like an overthink on Seattle’s behalf. Chubb should’ve been their man and with him, they likely would’ve returned their running game to the Marshawn Lynch days — when it was the most fearsome ground attack in the NFL.

2019 — the wrong plan, badly executed

The Seahawks wanted a pass rusher and a safety.

We can say that with a great deal of confidence. For staters, those are the two positions they selected with their top two picks. Secondly, they had a gaping hole at defensive end following the Frank Clark trade and they’ve since added three safeties at great expense.

Yet the way they handled the week of the 2019 draft has arguably done more harm than anything to Seattle’s reset.

The Seahawks traded Clark to the Chiefs in the days leading up to the draft. The thought process was perfectly logical. They avoided paying Clark $20m a year and the upcoming draft class was well know for its depth of talent on the defensive line.

Theoretically the trade allowed them to add to their paltry number of picks (they didn’t have a second rounder due to the Duane Brown trade) and find a cheap replacement for Clark.

So they entered the draft with picks #21 and #29 and seemingly felt confident (based on their later comments that the board worked against them) that they were going to land a top defensive lineman from a great positional class. There’s been a few rumours that their main targets were Rashan Gary and Brian Burns.

Gary was very similar to Clark. He was highly explosive, well sized and surprisingly agile. His combine testing was superb and he would’ve been an ideal replacement based on profile.

There were significant rumours that a shoulder injury had moved Gary down many boards. Some prominent mock drafts were starting to project him in the early 20’s and he was often paired with Seattle.

Burns, meanwhile, had the classic frame for a Seahawks LEO. He was long, lean, explosive and quick. He was adept at winning 1v1 off the edge. He too would’ve been a tremendous addition.

Perhaps they received bad intel? Or maybe they just whiffed on their own internal projections? Gary was gone by pick #12 and Burns was off the board by #16. Neither got close to pick #21.

With both players gone, the Seahawks traded down to #30.

A lot of people have speculated that by moving down they missed out on Montez Sweat and Jerry Tillery. I don’t buy that, personally.

Sweat’s heart condition was a serious concern and I wouldn’t blame any team for taking him off their board. He was being projected as a top-10 pick prior to the discovery of the defect, so if the Seahawks were prepared to select him they probably would’ve taken Sweat at #21 (especially given their huge need for a pass rusher).

Tillery never struck me as a Seahawks type of player. He had an odd character and flattered to deceive on the field. He had the physical skills but I’m not convinced Seattle were ever seriously interested in him.

I’m speculating a lot here — but I think Gary and Burns coming off the board early was a crushing blow. There were other D-liners available at #21 and they were desperate to add one. It made no sense to trade down if they really wanted Sweat or Tillery. I am convinced that they pinned their hopes on Gary or Burns being available and all the talk of the draft not going there way was directly linked to the pair.

Perhaps if Gary makes it to #16, Burns is available at #21? Maybe he would’ve just lasted all the way to #21 himself? We’ll never know.

Moving down to #30 feels like resignation, in hindsight. They’d missed out, so they were going to trade down and see the lay of the land at the end of round one.

I think, once the two pass rushers had gone off the board, they had their eye on Johnathan Abram. Clearly they wanted a safety. Abram tested superbly at the combine. He was a tone-setter at Mississippi State and he played with the style they like at the position.

An ideal first round could’ve been getting one of Burns or Gary and then Abram. That might’ve been their ‘plan A’.

When the Raiders took Abram with the 27th pick, all three were gone.

That is my best guess as to why they looked so gloomy in their press conference after the first round. They’d come out empty handed, missing on their targets — days after trading away the one good pass rusher on the roster.

This is the first mistake from the 2019 draft. They misjudged the situation and projected poorly. With picks #21 and #29 they should’ve made sure they landed at least one of their targets — even if it meant moving up a few spots or simply taking someone they really wanted at #21. There was a reason why they looked so miserable in the press conference after. I can’t believe there wasn’t anyone available at #21, or a viable trade-up option, to avoid this scenario.

The second mistake was not being prepared to pivot away from their targeted positional needs. Once the draft had started to work against them, the reaction needed to be to take a breath and look at who the best players available were.

There was still a lot of talent available — particularly at receiver. As much as the D-line class received rave reviews in 2019, wide out was also considered a strength.

Quality offensive linemen were also available.

I think the Seahawks were so focused on addressing their defensive end and safety needs that they simply selected the next players on their board instead of drafting for value. Thus, you end up with L.J. Collier and Marquise Blair.

For what it’s worth, I liked both Collier and Blair going into that draft. Collier had a sensational Senior Bowl and his tape was good. Blair was a head hunter at safety who packed a punch and he had plus athletic skills.

I’m not sure either warranted being the foundation for your entire draft, however — and they might’ve been available much later on.

Rather than take the next best player at those two specific positions to fill needs, Seattle should’ve looked at other areas. For example — Deebo Samuel and A.J. Brown left the board in the range Seattle was picking in. Terry McLaurin went later — but we spent a ton of time before the draft discussing his suitability as a late first round target.

All three fit Seattle’s preferred physical traits at receiver. As did D.K. Metcalf, who they thankfully took later on to salvage the draft class.

Had the Seahawks accepted their fate, they could’ve easily had Samuel, Brown or McLaurin (who, as it happens, received a rave review from Pete Carroll during yesterday’s press conference).

Again, this isn’t just me handpicking good players and saying they should’ve been drafted. Every year we discuss what Seattle looks for at receiver. They have to run in the 4.4’s or faster. Samuel, Brown and McLaurin did that, unlike N’Keal Harry who was taken just before all three. We talked a lot about Samuel in particular due to his amazing performance in Mobile. He and McLaurin were arguably the two standout players at the Senior Bowl that year.

Imagine a situation where the Seahawks had taken one of Samuel, Brown or McLaurin, then taken an interior offensive lineman such as Elgton Jenkins or Erik McCoy, before trading up for Metcalf? The receiver position would now be set up for years to come. Russell Wilson would be pinching himself. They’d have a long term solution at center or left guard too.

Sure, they wouldn’t have been able to add a defensive end or safety. So what? They started the season with Tedric Thompson and Bradley McDougald anyway — so there was no need to force the Blair pick. They could’ve pushed that need into 2020, especially given they then traded for Quandre Diggs and Jamal Adams.

On the defensive line, they immediately signed Ziggy Ansah after the draft because they knew Collier wasn’t an immediate impact player. I suspect they would’ve traded for Jadeveon Clowney anyway, even if Collier didn’t get hurt in training camp.

There really wasn’t any reason to stick so strictly to the two positions once the board went against Seattle in 2019. The end result is thus — Collier looks like a thoroughly average, rotational player who is seeing his snaps decrease:

Jets — 18 (34%)
Giants — 24 (43%)
Eagles — 29 (41%)
Cardinals — 24 (36%)

For all the promise Blair has shown in flashes, the Seahawks were clearly unconvinced by his starting potential (thus the Diggs & Adams trades) and he was moved to nickel before his injury.

The double act of trading Clark and then spending two high picks in the way they did is one of the biggest reasons why the reset has not guided Seattle back to the top.

It’s not unrealistic at all to imagine a scenario where the Seahawks drafted Nick Chubb, kept Clark and then drafted Deebo Samuel, A.J. Brown or Terry McLaurin to go with D.K. Metcalf. Wishful thinking? Sure. Unrealistic? Not at all.

These are the kind of moves that the 2010-12 Seahawks would’ve nailed. Get those two drafts right and this team could’ve been truly special.

2020 — desperation and the Darrell Taylor pick

Both Schneider and Carroll spelled it out numerous times. They needed to fix the pass rush. That was the priority.

Seattle’s 2019 pass rush was as bad as their 2017 running game. They were a one-man band, relying totally on Jadeveon Clowney for any kind of pressure. Ziggy Ansah was a huge bust. Quinton Jefferson offered a bit here and there. The rest? Ineffective.

They said retaining Clowney was a priority. I believe them. I think they truly intended to re-sign him and the rest of the off-season would follow from there.

I think they calculated, correctly, that his market wouldn’t be what he expected. The Seahawks are very good at working the room at the combine, finding out information. I suspect nobody out-works John Schneider in Indianapolis.

Their plan made sense. Offer Clowney a deal that could be the best on the table but ultimately won’t be what he expects. Then lean on the strong relationship they established to ‘recruit’ him back to Seattle.

Nobody could’ve predicted what happened next. Clowney’s unwillingness to sign any contract below what he felt he was worth was an unprecedented move. I don’t blame the Seahawks for not anticipating it and I don’t blame Clowney for sticking to his guns. It was simply an unfortunate situation.

Sadly, it seemed to negatively impact both parties.

Clowney’s stance didn’t help his bargaining position. He simply cost himself money and I suspect the truncated nature of the whole saga had a negative impact on his play in the end.

For Seattle, they were stuck. They couldn’t splash out on other players because they wanted Clowney and knew the minute they spent big money on others, retaining him was impossible. They kept money available pretty much throughout the off-season on the off-chance he would sign. It never happened.

It meant that they missed out on a host of other pass rushers, ended up frittering money away on cheap deals in order to try and save something for Clowney — only to end up using a lot of their remaining money on other bargain bin signings.

Anyone who was prepared to be honest about the situation knew Benson Mayowa and Bruce Irvin were not adequate additions to fix a pass rush. The Seahawks needed more but following the first flush of free agency it wasn’t obvious how they were going to get it. Either they’d have to find a resolution with Clowney, or they’d have to try and sign someone like Everson Griffen. Or they could look to the draft.

It wasn’t a good draft class for pass rushers. The options weren’t great, even with the Seahawks owning three picks in the first two rounds.

Yet there was one player who clearly appealed.

Tennessee’s Darrell Taylor looked like a Seahawks pass rusher. His chiselled frame, his unnatural ability to bend the arc and straighten to the quarterback. This was exactly what the Seahawks were looking for. He was nearly 6-4 and 267lbs with 33 inch arms. He was long, lean, athletic and powerful.

The only problem is he’d suffered a serious leg injury that required a titanium rod to be inserted into his leg.

He wasn’t able to perform at the Senior Bowl or combine as a consequence. Making matters worse was the emergence of a global pandemic. Teams would test and probe an injury like this for weeks before the draft. Now, information was severely limited.

Draft insiders speculated whether Taylor would go undrafted as a consequence. There was so little known about the injury, it was unclear whether he’d even pass a medical. While there was no doubting his talent and potential — if he couldn’t even get on the field to practise, nothing else mattered.

I remember doing several podcasts during draft season where I was asked about Taylor and the reaction was usually one of shock when I mentioned he could go undrafted. This was a unique year for the NFL, with teams having far less information than they’d ever had before.

I assumed a lot of teams wouldn’t have Taylor on their draft boards. I thought for weeks he’d be a day three pick at best. It was only in the build up to the draft, when Pete Schrager mocked him to Seattle in round one, that the conversation flipped.

Incidentally, who is telling Pete Schrager who the Seahawks are going to draft? And why? If he knows, presumably other teams will know? Likewise, why did Chris Mortensen know enough to tell Russell Wilson he was going to be drafted by Seattle in 2012? I digress, but still.

I think the Seahawks felt a lot of pressure to get a pass rusher during the 2020 draft. Clowney was still available and there was enough cap space to bring him back. Carroll spoke after the draft and went to great lengths to say the door was still open for a return. Adding a cheap rookie pass rusher was cost-effective insurance. It did make sense, in fairness, if they wanted to leave the door open for Clowney.

Yet the decision to target Taylor specifically — so much so that they traded up for him — was clearly a misjudgement.

He’s been on the NFI list all year. Carroll recently revealed his leg is structurally healed — yet he’s still not practising because he doesn’t feel right.

This isn’t a typical return like you’d see with a player coming back from an ACL or a high ankle sprain. Taylor has a titanium rod in his leg. I can only imagine how mentally challenging it must be to feel confident enough to play such an aggressive sport at a pro level in this situation.

His rookie season is a write-off. The hope has to be that in a years time he’ll not only be mentally ready to return but that he’ll physically be ready too. He won’t have played football for two years and the leg will always be a potential issue.

Spending two high picks on Taylor was reckless and far too risky this year. Had the Seahawks been able to do all of the usual medical checks in a non-Covid year, I’d have more sympathy with them. This feels like a desperate pick in hindsight. Desperate because of the situation with the pass rush post-free agency, desperate because of what happened with Clowney and desperate because they zoned in on a player with major red flags and traded up for him anyway.

If he never plays — and let’s be honest, we have to at least consider that a possibility — or if he struggles to regain his best form after this long layoff, the Seahawks will have wasted two high picks in the year where they needed a strong off-season to push them back into contention.

It would also mean that four first and second round picks were spent on Collier, Blair and Taylor in two drafts. That’s not a good return so far, with little cause for optimism in the future. It’s especially disappointing when you see who else was available.

The Seahawks seem to get themselves into trouble when they go into a draft with a massive glaring need. Their best picks in recent years — D.K. Metcalf and Damien Lewis — have been opportunistic moves. Really talented players lasting longer than they should’ve done and you capitalise.

You could even make that case for Jordyn Brooks. He has shown some flashes of talent. Seattle didn’t desperately need a linebacker this year but felt that was a strong position at the end of round one.

Their inability to solve problems in free agency to allow the draft to come to them has been a sticking point in 2019 and 2020 and is one of the main reasons why the reset has failed to deliver a much improved team.

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275 Responses to “The three big draft mistakes that impacted Seattle’s reset”

  1. Trevor says:

    Rob do you think perhaps Seattle needs to take a long look at their medical team and how they do evaluations? It seems like every rookie class has injury issues. That combine with passing in Chubb likely because of medical, the Taylor pick and passing on Montez Sweat for what we now know was a misdiagnosis have really put this organization behind the 8 ball.

    Maybe all organizations have similar issues as it is far from an exact science but the Hawks really seem to struggle in this area as well as keeping their draft picks healthy and ready to compete and contribute year #1.

    I for one would love to see them look at NC St’s training staff and find out how they keep turning out freak athletes that only seem to get bigger, stronger and faster while at thier program.

    • Rob Staton says:

      I have no idea. I can’t judge a medical team in any way.

      • BigSmooth13 says:

        One thing to realize is that Tyler Lockette has a titanium rod in his leg, and a lot of players who have tibia fractures will have a rod in their leg. Earl passed on it the first time he broke his leg.

        Also with Pete saying that it’s structurally healed, my guess is that there is an infection and that’s why “it doesn’t feel right” and he’s not able to play.

  2. Louis says:

    Rob,

    Thanks for your insights. It’s the best Seahawks analysis on the planet. Say, do you think your podcasts on YouTube will ever make it onto apple? I like to download podcasts and listen to them when I can. Hard to do that with YouTube as I don’t always have a clear WiFi connection. Maybe there’s a way, but I’m not too technically inclined. Anyhow, thank you so much for your time and effort.

    Merry Christmas,

    Louis

    • Rob Staton says:

      That was certainly the plan — although I don’t think the listener numbers ever reached a point where I thought we need to get this on numerous platforms. On Youtube we get about 600-1000 views for each episode on average. It has been up to about 3000 at times and there’s no real rhyme or reason when that happens. If it was consistently at that rate I would put it on Apple.

      Appreciate the kind words and Merry Christmas.

      • 604 to 403 Hawks Fan says:

        I too would like to see your podcasts on apple podcasts. I think you’re thinking about it the wrong way. If you were to put it on apple, you would make it much more accessible and get the 3,000 listeners.

        Just my 2 cents :). Keep up the awesome work Rob!

      • RipleyRay says:

        I would (and have) encourage you to put it on Apple or a site where they can be downloaded. I think you would find the numbers would be there. For me, it is tough to find time to watch Youtube but easy to listen to podcasts while in the car commuting, working outside, etc. I just don’t think the number of views on Youtube accurately reflect the actual interest in your podcasts.

        • Rob Staton says:

          Perhaps not but then everything seems to be on YouTube these days. It’s harder to know how many listeners you get on Apple — and harder to promote online.

        • Jimbo Mactastic says:

          +1. I love the blog and read literally every article, but like most people I listen to my podcasts when commuting.

  3. Gohawks5151 says:

    What a well written, depressing article. I really want to give these guys the benefit of the doubt outside of Collier, who is what he is at this point. Penny really looks good when he is at his peak. The 3 game stretch before he got hurt last year was a real coming out. He is a homerun hitter and has the rare ability to cut all the way back against NFL defenses like the fastest kid in Pop Warner football. They just need to find a way to keep him healthy.

    Seattle has always maintained Blair was a FS much to many’s surprise so I think there is some wiggle room interpreting Jamal’s addition. If anything it seems a conflict with keeping Diggs long term. When he played last year he had a lot of flashes and made the mistakes you want a rookie to make (over aggressive, not aligned). Maybe if they gave him the same leash they have given Brooks this year he would have showed enough to eliminate the thought of Jamal’s addition completely. He looked pretty good this year too.

    These look backs are hard as you mentioned. I think there is a tendency to be very “woe is me” when doing so but other teams error as well. Patriots took the oft injured Sony Michel (who I liked as much as Chubb) and the under producing Nkeal Harry in the same time period. Their offense suffers due to both. Abrams is one of the worst rated safety’s in the league this year and was hurt last year. Deebo is great but my Niners buddy called him the “New David Boston” and I can’t shake that. They will be living for the high moments when he doesn’t have nagging injuries.

    They way for Seattle is simple and well known on the SDB. Take care of business in FA, and make smart decisions in the draft. Maybe the last 3 off seasons have hammered home this point.

  4. Sean says:

    Were the Seahawks really more skilled at drafting in 2010-12, or were they just luckier? PCJS were hailed as brilliant talent evaluators and drafters for some great late picks. And now for many years since, they appear to have poor results, going back even further than Rob’s analysis above. It seems like the discussion is often that PCJS were very good and are now subpar at drafting.

    I just wonder if they have worse draft results because they are approaching evaluation or draft philosophy differently, or if it is just the law of averages. I was not paying attention enough when they first started to know if they were making moves that felt as desperate and just happened to work out better than their picks have the last few years.

    • Rob Staton says:

      I don’t think anyone should diminish their achievements between 2010-12.

      It wasn’t luck, it was class. They did a fantastic job.

      But in recent drafts, they’ve not done a fantastic job.

      • VanHawksFan says:

        Rob, it seems to bring back the question of how influential Scot McLoughan might have beenin that 2010-12 period and/or whether losses in the personnel department due to the Seahawks continued success have contributed to a brain drain.

      • BryanC says:

        Iy may be just a coincidence, but it seems like Scot McCloughan being on staff was the key to those 2010 – 2013 drafts that were so ridiculously good. It seems like he was really the man behind the curtain with the scouting prowess.

        • Rob Staton says:

          Again, this just feels like a convenient way to undermine PCJS.

          They deserve credit for those drafts. We don’t need to take it away from them.

        • AlaskaHawk says:

          The Seahawks also had at least 3 draft picks in the top 15. They chose Okung, Earl Thomas, and after trade downs Irvin (he was a surprise pick). It’s not that hard to pick talent when your that high on the draft board.

          One difference I do see is that the early Seahawks were willing to sift through hundreds of players looking for a hidden gem. I don’t see that amount of effort put into finding undrafted players anymore. Perhaps they decided it wasn’t time effective.

          • Coley fudge says:

            Pete Carrol had a complete view of all the college prospects coming to the NFL for 3-4 years having recruited and looked at extensive film as a coach at SC. I remember him saying as much when he was hired in that they would have an advantage for several years in the draft. So absolutely they drafted phenomenally 2010-2013.

          • dj 1/2 way says:

            Agree with AlaskaHawk and Coley Fudge below. The early picks are helpful, and so are the early picks in every round you have a pick. The 2nd, 3rd etc. are higher.

            Also, Carrol had all that prep work on the players he recruited, scouted and played against. It had to make a difference. It is the best explanation for the three year excellence followed by mostly below average results.

      • Duceyq says:

        Holding this franchise to its remarkable standard from 2010-2012 is unrealistic. Unfortunately Seattle has had season ending injuries to key draft picks that have suppressed production.

        Some might say that Penny was the better pick because he had much less tread on the tires than Cubb w/o the injury history.

        I doubt Seattle would ever draft two WR within the top 60 picks so I’d rather DK over anyone of the other wideouts you mentioned. Proposing that thought is anti how this team has drafted.

        Injuries to Dissly, Penny, and Blair have hurt production for which we can all see having shown promising flashes. Seattle’s roster is still flooded with drafted contributors post 2012.

        DK, Ugo, Lewis, Brooks, Swain, Ford look to be solid picks in the last two drafts. Other notable contributors from draft classes post 2012 that are still on the roster are:

        Lockett
        Reed
        Shaquille Griffin
        Pocic
        Carson
        Moore

        Newbies:

        DK
        Ugo
        Lewis
        Brooks
        Swain
        Ford

        Injured but show promise:

        Dissly
        Penny
        Blair

        Too early to judge but have had some flashes:

        Collier
        Green
        Jones (rotationally)
        Homer
        Robinson

        Literally half of a 9-4 roster is made of drafted talent. There’s only 3 players still from that 2010-2012 draft.

        By AV Seattle out performed it’s expected contribution by draft position. Among the top 3 in the NFL. Measuring them against historic classes is just a futile experiment and will always cast post draft classes in a different light.

        Picking at the back of the draft year after year has its drawbacks and could Seattle have taken a different player hear or there, possibly but it’s not an indictment based on some of the contributors they have drafted.

        Calling Taylor a failed draft pick this prematurely is also tbd. If he is able to contribute next season with a full off season program and heals up he could be the steal of the draft. He ticks all the boxes physically and stood out in the SEC.

        I rather them swing and miss on a generational talent like that then make safe picks that fizzle out. He has the physical tools to dominate the NFL and just because you think he may have gone undrafted doesn’t speak to the front office who may have not wanted missing their guy like they did with “Burns” and/or “Gary”.

        I think early returns have been pretty good in the last two drafts with solid contributors along with some All Pro potential sprinkled in.

        Look no further than how the Jets have drafted over the last 5 years with high picks to have some perspective.

        • Rob Staton says:

          “Holding this franchise to its remarkable standard from 2010-2012 is unrealistic.”

          At no point have I attempted to hold them to that standard. But even so, there’s no reason to not expect great things from a front office that created a legendary team. That doesn’t mean I expect them to find the next Kam and Sherm in round five, or draft another generational player in round three. It does mean I expect, quite rightly, a proven front office to perform better than it has done in recent years.

          Some might say that Penny was the better pick because he had much less tread on the tires than Cubb w/o the injury history.

          It’s an argument. So is the evidence on tape that Chubb was a superior player, that he’d made a full recovery from his injury and that he was everything the Seahawks looked for in a running back. It’s also fair to point out, as I have done, that it’s unfair to compare the two players in terms of health/durability when one player was a four year starter in the SEC and the other started for one year in the MWC.

          I doubt Seattle would ever draft two WR within the top 60 picks

          If that’s what the board dictates, they should be prepared to.

          Injuries to Dissly, Penny, and Blair have hurt production for which we can all see having shown promising flashes.

          I never even mentioned Dissly in the piece. Penny I’ve already addressed in detail in the article. The thought process of selecting him is what I have legitimately questioned. I also challenged the approach that saw the Seahawks ‘stick to their guns’ and take a DE/S combo in 2019 that I have the issue with — Blair’s injury situation is neither here nor there. But you cannot deny that this team drafted Blair to play safety in round two and ever since have been adding other safeties (Diggs, Adams) at great expense. That’s not a great review of their decision making to take him or what impression he’s made since being drafted.

          DK, Ugo, Lewis, Brooks, Swain, Ford look to be solid picks in the last two drafts. Other notable contributors from draft classes post 2012 that are still on the roster are:

          Lockett
          Reed
          Shaquille Griffin
          Pocic
          Carson
          Moore

          Newbies:

          DK
          Ugo
          Lewis
          Brooks
          Swain
          Ford

          Injured but show promise:

          Dissly
          Penny
          Blair

          Too early to judge but have had some flashes:

          Collier
          Green
          Jones (rotationally)
          Homer
          Robinson

          Literally half of a 9-4 roster is made of drafted talent. There’s only 3 players still from that 2010-2012 draft.

          By AV Seattle out performed it’s expected contribution by draft position. Among the top 3 in the NFL. Measuring them against historic classes is just a futile experiment and will always cast post draft classes in a different light.

          Picking at the back of the draft year after year has its drawbacks and could Seattle have taken a different player hear or there, possibly but it’s not an indictment based on some of the contributors they have drafted.

          I’m not sure why you’ve written this. You seem to be arguing against an opinion of ‘they haven’t drafted anyone good’. I haven’t said that and this seems a bit of a strawman.

          Calling Taylor a failed draft pick this prematurely is also tbd.

          I literally haven’t called Taylor a failed pick. Can you please stop putting words into my mouth?

          I analysed why I think it was a poor decision to trade up and select him this year. That’s not the same as writing it off as a failed pick. The early signs are not great though.

          I rather them swing and miss on a generational talent like that then make safe picks that fizzle out.

          So Taylor’s now a ‘generational talent’?????

          Come on.

          just because you think he may have gone undrafted doesn’t speak to the front office who may have not wanted missing their guy like they did with “Burns” and/or “Gary”.

          It wasn’t remotely unfair to suggest he might go undrafted and I wasn’t alone in that. As I’ve already explained, and you seem to have ignored, the global pandemic preventing teams from thoroughly testing anyone with a serious injury was a major problem this year. Teams were taking shots in the dark on players who might not have otherwise passed medicals and therefore wouldn’t have been on boards.

          Taylor was the perfect example of a player in that position. And they spent two picks on him. It was a massive, massive gamble that looks like it could backfire in a big way.

          None of this is unfair for me to say. You’re right, the front office felt differently. We’re allowed to question their decision making though.

          Look no further than how the Jets have drafted over the last 5 years with high picks to have some perspective.

          So now any criticism of the Seahawks in the draft has to be put into the context of ‘at least they’re not the Jets’??? Sorry, but no.

    • TatupuTime says:

      When the Seahawks were doing their thing I think they benefitted from doing things slightly differently than the rest of the league (CB profile, some sort of TEF for OL etc.) and also had a unique defence and style.

      You don’t get Seahawk-y CBs in round 5 anymore. Short QBs. Everyone is clearly prioritizing explosiveness in OL prospects given how shit the college OL prospects are.
      Add to it that more teams are running a PC style defence with the players that fit best there..

      • Alex H says:

        The defense was ancient even back when it was introduced in the late 00s and early 10s. Pete Carroll is basically a mid 90s coach. His defense came from the 49ers when he was the DC there (multiple articles are out there on this). His OL philosophy of the zone blocking scheme also came about because the Bronco’s Alex Gibbs Zone Blocking Scheme was the most cutting edge scheme in the mid 90s. His preference for big corners is highly modeled after the early 80s Raiders when the two Hayes locked down the outside.

        Despite running a 15 year old scheme, it worked perfectly fine. I still believe it can work. The issue is having the right personnel to run the scheme. Adam’s skill set attacking the LOS, the lack of a true LEO, the lack of a edge setting end who can also rush, the lack of a ball hawk free safety at the top are all issues, not having your CBs press more, etc. I also suspect the departure of various coaches on the defensive side of the ball hasn’t helped. Norton is a fine LB coach, not so much a DC. Likewise, Richard was a fine DB coach, not so much a DC. Quinn/Bradley were both solid DCs (even if it is Carroll’s scheme). Right now, the stronger coaches are on the offensive side (after the wholesale change of Bevell, Carl Smith, Cabel all gone).

  5. stregatto says:

    Rob, the way you structured the piece and nailed each of those separate moments in time was superb. Also took me back to those episodes in Hawks offseason history and the discussions and considerations here on the blog. Let’s hope PCJS are still reflecting and learning as they go too.

  6. Chase says:

    I think you hit the nail on the head Rob. Unfortunately it seems it might take a year or two to dig themselves out of this hole. I’m almost of the opinion that another reset will be required. Who is the core of this team? Russ, DK, maybe Lockett and Lewis? Will Carson get re-signed? Has Shaq’s play warranted an extension? Do you keep Dunbar? How long is Duane Brown going to last? Do you pay Adams? Is Bobby still the future at linebacker? If Shotty becomes a HC, who will be the OC? Does Norton deserve another chance? It seems there are more questions than answers.

    If they can’t realistically contend next season, the sooner they start the better. For all the years we’ve said we are a year away this does not seem like one of them. I’d rather they spend a year or two of Wilson’s prime building up a roster than keep patching together these one and done teams when they fail to address needs.

      • Chase says:

        Rob, why does it seem like PCJS have failed to learn from these mistakes?

        • Rob Staton says:

          I don’t know. I just think their plans have been poor. They’ve made bad choices.

          You won’t take a shot on Chubb, but you’ll trade two picks for Taylor. You miss out on your guys in 2019, then start drafting strictly for need when if they’d stuck to BPA — they could have an incredible situation at receiver right now.

          Not fixing the pass rush.

          All very different situations. I keep waiting for them to have an amazing draft ala 2011 or 2012 or an amazing free agency ala 2013 and it never comes.

          • AlaskaHawk says:

            It seems like they have spent an inordinate amount of draft capital on the defensive, and have failed to find/produce above average defensive linemen and cornerbacks. They have drafted defensively with 2 out of their top 3 picks year after year. They have not only failed to improve the defense, but they have also failed to improve the offense except for wide receivers, and paying Brown to stay at left tackle.

            Yes I know that Russell has lots of touchdown passes this year, but the offense sputters at the worst of times. The only thing saving Russell is a healthy Carson – but why are the running backs injured most of the time? Why has it taken this long to replace Lynch? The Seahawks have probably used at least 10 running backs since Lynch. Only Carson can be claimed as a success. That is just a terrible running back success rate for a position which is valued cheaply.

  7. pdway says:

    that’s a good piece. I think the analysis is very fair – and the logic instinctively feels right.

    Of all of them, to me Collier really stands out as the biggest miss – at least Penny and Blair have talent, and the Taylor situation while disappointing, is still something of an unknown. But feels like at this point we know what we’ve got w LJ.

  8. Rob Staton says:

    https://twitter.com/TomPelissero/status/1339686742115426311

    I’ve always really liked Alex Boone.

    Absolute bad ass.

  9. cha says:

    Thanks Rob. Very thoughtful piece.

    Man 2018 was a gut punch to the roster from a talent standpoint

    Sherman cut
    Bennett traded
    Avril and Kam injury retired
    Sheldon Richardson not resigned
    Lynch traded
    Malik McDowell released

    There’s all very good reasons those things happened, but looking back, a really strong 2018 draft would’ve salved a lot of those wounds.

  10. ElroyNumbers says:

    While I have critiqued your for being overly negative imo, your Seahawks analysis is the best of any site or reporter around. My guess no other team’s fans are blessed with a site like this.

    • Rob Staton says:

      Thank you.

      And I don’t set out to be negative. I used to be accused of being too positive. I just call things as I see them. I won’t be positive or negative for the sake of it. I hope, in the future, I can be more positive.

  11. Ukhawk says:

    Rob. Am a big supporter and usually don’t disagree but defo will on this one.

    2018 – Revisionist analysis. Nice try. I’m sure if we look back, pretty sure the pick was heavily supported at the time even in this blog. Draft is still a crapshoot and while he didn’t pan out, he equally could’ve been the next Marshall Faulk. Doubt u would’ve drafted Chubb????

    2019 – Cant disagree but still do. The 3rd dummest move in Franchise history behind Dorsett, Hutchinson but ahead of Mirer, McGwire and Curry. Nevertheless hated it at the time knowing how hard it is to replace a franchise DE. This blog if memory serves advocated the trade given the impending free agency of RW and BWagz claiming affordability which was understandable (even grudgingly to myself). However now that looks stupid on a revisionist basis as Wagner is no longer an $18m player but Clark is.

    2020 – Again disagree. Heaps writes an article today about how great the draft is this year and this says Taylor was a bad pick. As usual the analysis should be somewhere in between. It’s a good draft if half the players hit and it is always too early to tell in year 1. Hopefully Brooks and Lewis make it great class on their own but Taylor is an incomplete at best and a unsurprising draft miss at worst. We are just spoiled by the early PCJS drafts IMO and the fact even the best struggle.

    Yes it is frustrating but resetting a franchise (twice lately) is tough and it can come with some bad luck and bad choices

    Thx for the analysis and talking points.

    • Rob Staton says:

      2018 – Revisionist analysis. Nice try. I’m sure if we look back, pretty sure the pick was heavily supported at the time even in this blog. Draft is still a crapshoot and while he didn’t pan out, he equally could’ve been the next Marshall Faulk. Doubt u would’ve drafted Chubb????

      It most certainly isn’t “revisionist analysis”. Here’s an article I wrote about Chubb a few years ago: http://seahawksdraftblog.com/why-the-seahawks-might-show-interest-in-nick-chubb

      Quote: “Chubb ticks every box based on what the Seahawks have looked for in the past:

      — Tough running style
      — Size ideals (height/weight)
      — Athletic profile
      — Overcame adversity (injury)”

      Here’s another, where I pointed out his suitability: http://seahawksdraftblog.com/nick-chubb-could-still-land-in-round-one

      Here’s an article where I noted Ronald Jones II and Nick Chubb as my top two runners in the class after Saquon: http://seahawksdraftblog.com/six-days-to-go-seahawks-predictions-thoughts

      Here’s my top six at each position, with Chubb rated highly again: http://seahawksdraftblog.com/the-top-six-players-at-each-position

      I wrote numerous articles projecting Chubb not only as a potential target, but as virtually the ideal Seahawks running back in terms of physical profile.

      I most certainly WOULD have drafted Nick Chubb. And you don’t get to accuse me of revisionist analysis because I didn’t immediately hammer the Penny pick or start complaining they should’ve drafted Chubb. My analysis is they made a call based on health, it was the wrong call (I gave reasons) and that Chubb — considering he fit everything they seek in a runner — should’ve been the pick.

      2019 – Cant disagree but still do. The 3rd dummest move in Franchise history behind Dorsett, Hutchinson but ahead of Mirer, McGwire and Curry. Nevertheless hated it at the time knowing how hard it is to replace a franchise DE. This blog if memory serves advocated the trade given the impending free agency of RW and BWagz claiming affordability which was understandable (even grudgingly to myself). However now that looks stupid on a revisionist basis as Wagner is no longer an $18m player but Clark is.

      I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone write: “Can’t disagree but still do.”

      I literally wrote in the article that the Clark trade was logical so I don’t know why you’re trying to imply I said otherwise. You seem to have ignored everything I wrote and have just labelled my points as revisionist again. This really isn’t an adequate riposte.

      2020 – Again disagree. Heaps writes an article today about how great the draft is this year and this says Taylor was a bad pick. As usual the analysis should be somewhere in between. It’s a good draft if half the players hit and it is always too early to tell in year 1. Hopefully Brooks and Lewis make it great class on their own but Taylor is an incomplete at best and a unsurprising draft miss at worst. We are just spoiled by the early PCJS drafts IMO and the fact even the best struggle.

      Why are you talking about a review of the 2020 draft class? My whole point was very specifically about the Darrell Taylor pick.

      Please don’t take this the wrong way, but this was a really shit counter argument.

    • Matty says:

      Always a great read and with challenging view on the Seahawks, but I agree with this reply. Very difficult to pick correctly in the draft and we all identify the players we think that suit, but these things very rarely work out on draft Day especially with lower draft pick, so many variables to add.

      • Rob Staton says:

        By all means disagree with my views.

        Don’t come on and tell me it’s revisionist history, fail to argue the points raised or indulge in strawman’s.

        I’m very, very happy to be challenged. But it needs to be better than this.

        • Ukhawk says:

          Did u drop my reply?

          • Rob Staton says:

            The conversation had run it’s course. You had your say, I had mine. Time to move on.

            • Ukhawk says:

              Shame.

              Thought it was just getting started

              • Rob Staton says:

                You’re lucky you got anything after this line…

                “Can’t disagree but still do.”

                • Rusty says:

                  I chuckled at that line yesterday and am again now. What does it mean lmao

                • Ukhawk says:

                  Sorry to not be more clear. What I meant to say was .. I can’t disagree… things could’ve turned out better… but I still do …disagree that ‘‘mistakes’ were made

                  Penny vs Chubb , really your going to pick the most successful back from the draft and say they made a mistake by not drafting him instead when coming off a serious injury?? They were both great prospects, and loads of players get red flagged for major injuries and not drafted by teams. But to say now they made a mistake by choosing Penny over Chubb is plain cherry picking hindsight.

                  And your going to throw them under the bus for Taylor, the year he is drafted, because they had imperfect info on his injury and didn’t know what we know now? The guy played all of 2019 with a “stress fracture” and recorded 8.5 sacks in the SEC. Didnt sound like a serious injury. Yes it’s disappointing he’s not hit the field but was this an avoidable draft whiff, or a risk worth taking?. Maybe a “mistake” if he never makes it back but at worst, for now, I’d say it’s an incomplete.

                  What I do agree on is that letting Frank Clark go was a mistake. Biggest in PCJS history. Logically we knew why they did it as you state (Cap/offer) but I’d argue more importantly that logically it is almost impossible to replace an all pro DE drafting each year at the bottom half of round 1. That is the mistake that has sapped more resources in trying to unsuccessfully fix the problem than I can ever remember. But it’s a mistake we can agree on.

                  • Rob Staton says:

                    I’ve addressed all this already.

                    You’ve had your response, I’ve had mine. We’re just repeating ourselves.

                  • Ukhawk says:

                    Sure agreed. Let me be clear too when we stop on my perspective.

                    I’m not trying to present strawman arguments to what you asserted. Far from indulging, I tried to present steelman points to strengthen the idea that a better outcome(s) was/were possibl. In part to support some of the assertions in the article.

                    And second, all historical analysis is revisionist. I was certainly not trying to argue nor imply you contradicted your previous views. My point is that I believe some points made had hindsight bias. Hence I’m trying to present alternatives or other information again to backup that they could have done better.

                    As always really enjoy the blog and the forum to discuss and your views and opinions. Really do not wish this to be a slagging match of any sort. Happy holidays and thanks again for

  12. Bertelli says:

    Very well written post, Rob. I thinks it’s fitting that I found the word “desperate” so many times in it.. It’s so true and I think you summed it up perfectly. It’s kind of like facing off in poker with the high stack when you only have a few chips left. You get desperate, then you lose!

  13. Pran says:

    Agree w/everything. its plain misery with drafts since 2013 save for a pick here and there.
    While LOB was around, they drafted for depth mostly and failed. now they are struggling to find starters to fill gaps. They still have not been able to see the big picture and figure out why their drafts are failing year after year.

    Wasted LOB prime and wasting Russ’s prime… Vets are aging and youth are failing necessitating desperate trades which are not up to mark too.

  14. Sea Mode says:

    What could have been… These are the articles that hurt the most.

  15. Pran says:

    2018
    Rashaad Penny #27
    Lamar Jackson #32

    • IHeartTacoma says:

      Ouch.

    • Big Mike says:

      There would’ve been zero consideration of Lamar by the Seahawks in that draft. Not sure I see your point. If it’s to show a better player was taken after Penny, I can say J.J. Arcea-Whiteside pick 57, DK Metcalf pick 64 and so on and so forth.

      • Big Mike says:

        And really my example is poor cuz they play the same position. Using your logic I can drop Russell Wilson pick 75, Bryan Anger a punter, pick 70 by Jax.

        • Pran says:

          Reason is to point out BPA. Hiesman trophy winner and future franchise QB vs who? We could have traded a QB for boat load of picks. wost.. Lamar has rushed more and dynamic than Penny.

          Jax was always laughed at for their #70 leaving Russ at #75

      • TomLPDX says:

        I had the same take. Apples v. oranges. We didn’t need a QB1 at the time so he was never on our radar.

    • bv eburg says:

      On this website before the draft in 2018 I proposed trading Russ for a boatload of picks and drafting Lamar. My rational was I thought they were further away from a SB than the talent they had and no team has won a SB with a QB taking more than 14% of their cap.
      Rob convinced me otherwise on talent and they were within striking distance of the SB, but these last 3 drafts they have stagnated that development. To me with roster talent, lack of draft picks, lack of cap space we are back where we were in 2017 and needing to start a reset again.
      I’m starting to wonder if it’s time to explore trading Russ again. A 3 year reset put’s him at age 35. Would the Jets be interested in him with the #1 pick and recouping our Adams picks +? One of my hesitations though is what this article points out, their mediocre drafting over the last 5 years.
      I love watching Russ play so not a hater. The whole wait until next year is tiresome.

      • Sea Mode says:

        Not sure why people keep bringing this up, tbh. I don’t see any reason for the Jets to trade away a young, cheap Trever Lawrence (plus more picks at that) for an expensive Russell Wilson. It’s not like the rest of their roster is ready to contend and just the QB is holding them back. They need to restock the shelves everywhere and doing it around a QB on a rookie deal is the best way.

        • Sea Mode says:

          *Trevor

          • bv eburg says:

            @sea
            I just threw the Jets out as an example (although a poor one for reasons you point out). Maybe Miami or team closer to competing with available draft capitol?
            My only trepidation is event with draft capitol I’m not sure they get it right as article points out.

          • Spectator says:

            With the talk of Jags moving to London, seems like that would be a perfect scenerio. That is assumign they move. Start in your new location with a superstar QB who is married to a Superstar. Russ gets his big market. Ciara im sure would be ecstatic. Jags have a decent enough team that could maybe compete with Russ at the helm. We get put in a position to Draft Fields or Wilson. Stock up on some more picks to address other needs. I could possibly get behind this.

      • Scot04 says:

        That trade would make 0 sense for the Jets. I’m doubtful they would even trade the #1 pick straight up for Wilson..
        As for the Seahawks Russell is proven and loved. They aren’t trading him unless he wants to be traded.

      • IHeartTacoma says:

        I like the way you think. At some point Seattle is going to be spending too much money on an old QB. Someday they will have to make a bold move.
        One problem is getting a new QB outside the top 15 or 20 picks (or worse, the next two years). Another is knowing whether that QB will pan out… the hindsight on Lamar is 20-20.
        But I like your point about % of cap tied up in one player. I think it works for a young stud like Mahomes or older productive players like Wilson. I would love to play with a formula that factors in cap distribution and productivity of top paid players. Productivity is subjective, so maybe just use availability / age, where availability is % of games played last year or something measurable. The formula might be the sum of salary * (availability / age) for your 10 top paid players. Run that at the start of a season and see if it predicts success.
        I don’t have the information to do that, maybe someone else can play with it. I’m also too old school: I dislike analytics, salary caps, and expensive quarterbacks. Just show me a great defense and I’m happy.

  16. Big Mike says:

    Good stuff my man. A clear and succinct breakdown of too many failures of what I consider the most important aspect of team building. Several people here have already mentioned that Penny over Chubb is revisionist history and while I can see their argument, my opinion is if 2 players are very close in evaluations, take the one from the stronger conference. The Collier pick really has no defense. None. Your suggestion to go to BPA in that instance is spot on. As for Taylor, I’ll give Ukhawk the benefit here and agree that the jury’s still out on the pick, but man it looks gruesome right now. And I don’t think there’s any question that they didn’t need to use the 3rd rounder to move up in round 2 to get him. That other 3rd could’ve been used to shore up the interior D-line quite nicely as there were a number of DTs that many here identified as quality picks in that range.

    One other failure you didn’t mention was the Cody Barton pick, one iirc they moved up in round 3 to make. He was obviously so unimpressive they felt the need to draft Brooks in 2020.

    Thank God for DK and Damien at this point. Slim return so far though. Need Brooks to continue to improve and Blair to return healthy and play well.

    • Rob Staton says:

      I’d buy the ‘Chubb is revisionist history’ argument a bit more if he wasn’t the walking embodiment of everything Seattle wants in a running back.

      • Big Mike says:

        And I would if Penny played in the SEC

      • TomLPDX says:

        I always looked at the Penny v. Chubb argument as “we needed a healthy RB. Period.” Penny was durable and hadn’t had any serious injuries at that point. We were decimated the year before and needed a solid RB because our running game didn’t exist. This was a calculated risk that John made and in hindsight, yeah, we should have taken Chubb for the reasons you point out…but for John, he chose Penny. I don’t hold that against Penny (and I’m sure you don’t either) and it didn’t work as solidly as planned. I certainly haven’t given up on Penny, but he needs to get on the field and perform at this point.

        Also, I keep scratching my head about Taylor. We actually brought him in prior to the Covid shutdown for a complete physical and the Seahawk docs got an up close and personal view of him…and they gave him the green light!

        • Rob Staton says:

          But Nick Chubb was durable. That’s the point. He played four years at Georgia and aside from that one injury, never missed a beat.

          Penny started for one season. One. Had he played four years in the SEC, he probably would’ve had injuries.

          If the determining factor was health, there simply wasn’t enough evidence to judge Penny.

          • TomLPDX says:

            And Chubb has proven it. I’m not disagreeing with you on that point. I think John made his decision based on the information he had. Did John misread the difference between playing teams in the SEC vs. the teams that Penny faced? Probably so. My point is that I think John made his decision based on that, right or wrong. The NFL is the SEC x 10, where the best of the best reside. Hopefully John recognizes this and will take that into account in his future evaluations.

            • Rob Staton says:

              But I’m not disputing that John made his decision on that. That’s the point I made in the article. I just think it was wrong.

            • James Kupihea says:

              The Penny pick always seemed strange to me, as they had known quantities available. Guice and Chubb seemed more along the lines of “seahawk” football. Do these qualities sound like a PC/JS RB? Has modest yards after first contact numbers over the last two seasons, Despite urgency as a runner, won’t break many quality tackle attempts, Doesn’t always show a feel for the best run lane choices, amd Will miss backside, cutback lanes…

              Penny starting to remind me of CJ…

          • Thisthat says:

            Really good post, Rob. Amazing how each point you made took me back to that year and draft and I can remember exactly the conversation and thoughts I had at the time on all of them.

            I may be mistaken but wanted to see if you remember this or if I gave it wrong. Was Penny ranked as the highest RB at yards after contact his final year? He sure doesn’t play like it now but for fucks sake that’s stuck in my head as a truth about him. Let me know if you remember at all. I always assumed that was why they took him over Chubb

            • Rob Staton says:

              I don’t have the stats to hand but someone else mentioned he was the leader in yards after contact (but as also noted by that individual, it was often dodging one tackle then running untouched to the end zone).

            • Kenny Sloth says:

              He had like 2000+ total yards at SDSU and was something like 40% of their total offense, but he came from an extremely well-oiled blocking scheme at SDSU that allowed him to beat one man and rip off 9+ yard chunks at a time.

              I had him as a 3rd rd grade fwiw and would’ve preferred even Royce Freeman or Kerryon Johnson to him

            • Sean says:

              I remember that too. Right after being drafted, the coverage included Penny leading in yards after contact, and seeming like a good bet to be healthier too. I believe there was a lot of talk at that time about “tread on the tires” being a big issue for RBs so that starting for only a year could be seen as a positive. So given that the Seahawks suffered from both RB injuries and poor blocking, it seemed like they were responding to specific problems they’d had the year or two before by choosing a guy that had that looked to be healthy and to thrive after being contacted by defenders.

              But watching Penny, even when healthy, he just doesn’t seem to have the smashmouth style of Lynch, pre-injury Rawls, or Carson that the Seahawks can really use. Instead, seems like he may have some skills and we have not used them well.

  17. hs says:

    Very well written and reasoned article. Your analysis sounds spot-on for every point raised, even the ones you are speculating on. One thing about the Penny pick was I seem to recall he had one of the highest broken tackle percentage numbers or something like that in college and I remember the Seahawks Oline in 2017 was an absolute disaster when it came to run blocking. I was at the Seahawks-Rams game in LA in 2017 and all three running backs – Lacy, Rawls and Mckissic seemed to get hit in the backfield every time they tried to run the ball and that was kind of the story pretty much all season. It wasnt until 2018 when they changed Oline coaches and got in bigger linemen that the run blocking improved. Not sure what Chubb’s numbers were for that broken tackles stat, but picking a back that was good at it might have been something in Penny’s favor compared to Chubb.

    • Rob Staton says:

      Thank you.

      You may be right on Penny — I don’t have the numbers to hand. He was never quite the physical, tough runner at SDSU though. More silky, calm.

      • Rusty says:

        Iirc he had the most yard after contact, much of it was breaking a single tackle and then running 80 yards tho

      • charlietheunicorn says:

        Didn’t Penny account for some insane amount of his teams total offense…. 30-40%????

        I thought Chubb would be the pick, when he was available when they were on the clock. We had the right position, but the wrong player. Still a head scratcher.

    • AlaskaHawk says:

      There may have been some thought that Penny had less miles on him than Chubb, and had performed well that season. I think they viewed Penny as a faster, shiftier back than Chubb.

      Bottom line is if Penny wasn’t injured all the time, he would be contributing to the team and we wouldn’t be discussing his worth. So I think we are arguing more about his injury history than his football skills.

      • JimQ says:

        I can certainly agree that the power-5, big conference teams turn out a bunch of good/to/great players, however, the smaller schools have also been known to produce some good/to/great players occasionally as well. Level of competition is an important consideration, but sometimes lesser conference teams may still turn up with some pretty good players every now and then.

        IMO- one of the more attractive stats for Penny coming out was as a kick returner, which hasn’t been tried very much by the Seahawks. As a RB, Penny has some pretty impressive college stats, (see below). I’ll also repeat myself that Penny needs more than an average of 6-or-7 carries a game that he has had to date. He has very clearly shown IMO that given more carries, he improves as the game goes along, a little
        similar to what the Seahawks used to have with Lynch. I agree Penny isn’t a Lynch/Carson clone, but he does have some talents that are not being considered or utilized by the Seahawks. Of course the ACL was bad, but his other injuries have mostly been fairly minor and most were poorly timed as well.

        At this point in time Penny has indeed suffered some setbacks injury wise but my complaint is that when he has been on the “active roster”, he’s seldom used as a feature back & only seems to get some “relief” RB snaps. IF they should ever consistently let him loose for a full game to – set up his style – and use him to his real strengths (call outside plays more maybe?), then watch for some greatly improved results.

        STATS:
        2017: Penny tied (with 2 others) the all time NCAA record as a player scoring a TD by receiving, rushing, punt return and kickoff return – all in a single game. (Versatility anyone?)

        2017: Penny tied the all-time NCAA record with five (5) straight 200-yard rushing games.

        2017: Penny set SDSU single-season record with 28-TD’s (23-rushing, 2 receiving, 1 punt & 2 KO returns. Penny’s rushing stats for 2017: 289 rushes for 2248-yds, 7.78-YPC and 23 rushing TD’s.

        2017: Penny’s 25-TD’s from line of scrimmage was #2 in the NCAA.

        2017: Penny was an All-American at RB/KR & 2017 & MWC offensive player of the year as a RB/KR.

        2017: Penny’s 2248-yards rushing was #1 in the NCAA. He added 19/133 & 2-TD’s receiving & 17-KO returns for 521-yds & 2-TD’s + 2 punt returns for 70-yards and 1-TD. – 2971-total all purpose yards.

        2017: Penny’s 2,248-yards rushing ranked not only 1-st. in 2017, but 5-th in NCAA history, behind only: Barry Sanders, (2628 in 1988), Melvin Gordon, (2587 in 2014), Kevin Smith (2567 in 2007) & Marcus Allen, (2342 in 1981). —- Additional NOTE: Penny had 136 carries for 1018-yards (7.5-ypc) & 11-TD’s in 2016, — as a non starter his Junior year.

        2014-2017: Penny as a kickoff returner – career- 81 returns for 2449-yards, 30.23-yard average & 7-TD’s.
        2014-2017: Penny’s 7.5-yard -career- rushing yards – per attempt is 7-th in NCAA history.
        2014-2017: Penny’s 30.23-yard average for KO return yards is #3 in NCAA history.
        2014-2017: Penny shares (with 3 others) the NCAA record for kick return TD’s with seven (7) in his career.
        2014-2017: Penny, from line of scrimmage = 530-touches for 4135-yards, 7.8-ypt & 44-TD’s
        + 83 for 2519-yards & 8-TD’s as a kick returner for his career.
        2014-2017 **Career All purpose yards = 6654 total yards + 52 total TD’s

        For stat. comparison purposes: RB-Nick Chubb. (I’m not dumping on him, he’s a great player that got his chance to be a starter, his major injury history aside, however smash mouthers MAY have shorter careers.)
        2017: 223/1345/6.3-ypc/15-TD’s + 4/30/7.5-yds. per reception & 0-TD’s, + NO return stats. at all.
        2014-2017, Career: Chubb from line of scrimmage 789-touches for 5130-yards, 6.5-ypt & 48-TD’s.
        2014-2017: **Career All purpose yards = 5130 total yards + 48 total TD’s Total.

        Stats Per: sports reference.com /&/ cfbstats.com.

  18. Trevor says:

    Justin Herbert is so impressive as a rookie. I thought he would be good but he has the potential to be a star. The AFC West with him and Mahomes is going to be really interesting for years to come.

    • BobbyK says:

      I didn’t really pay too much attention to him – much because the Seahawks don’t need a QB – but he looks legit. I bet the Chargers are glad the Dolphins took Tua instead!

    • Rob Staton says:

      Justin Herbert might be the most impressive rookie QB I’ve ever seen.

      It’s all just so natural to him.

      He has the potential for greatness.

      • BobbyK says:

        For me it’s still Marino – but, yes, he looks poised for greatness. A division with him and Mahomes will be fun to watch. Carr isn’t bad either. I don’t think he’s awesome, but he certainly doesn’t suck either.

        Now Broncos fans are getting a glimpse of what it used to feel like for other teams when they had Elway. Always having the second rate QB in comparison.

      • Henry Taylor says:

        My faith in my own ability to rate QBs took a huge hit with Herbert, he felt like a bust all day to me. Biggest miss I think I’ve ever had. Oregon’s coaching staff really wasted him.

        • Kenny Sloth says:

          My biggest question mark around him was his deep ball and it appears that he was limited by Oregon’s play calling there, for sure.

          Dude had a major toolkit coming out,

        • Matt says:

          Yep, me too. I thought he was going to be terrible. The Oregon coaching staff didn’t trust him during his Senior year. That was a huge red flag. Turns out the Oregon staff might just not be good coaches, just recruiters.

      • pdway says:

        totally agree. he throws such a nice ball – and he’s huge, but can move.

        was listening to Romo on the bill simmons podcast a couple weeks back. he’s saying that herbert is doing things that rookie qb’s aren’t supposed to do – and makes up for a lack of experience/knowledge of defensive schemes, by having that great field sense of where everybody is.

        thinks he’s going to be the best QB in this draft.

        • Rob Staton says:

          His vision and decisiveness is incredible for a rookie

          • Trevor says:

            He looks like a 10 yr vet in that regard which is even more amazing given the offense Oregon ran.

          • Kenny Sloth says:

            Took a lot of big-time hits to hang in there for big-time throws. We knew he could take a hit from his aggressive running at Oregon, but oftentimes he would shy away from oncoming rushers in the pocket.

            It’s a credit to the coaching staff in LA that they were able to get him ready for pro snaps and take advantage of his strengths

  19. BobbyK says:

    Such a sad and pathetic truth to this post. I don’t think Jordyn Brooks looks like Derrick Brooks or anything, but THANKFULLY he looks like he’ll actually be a good player.

    I wasn’t wild on a right guard early in the 3rd round (because I knew the defense still sucked so bad) but I’m glad they took Damien Lewis.

    The moral of the story is just to take good football players. They force way too much stuff when they take what they “NEED.” That’s where bums like LJ Collier come from.

    Like Rob said, maybe the Seahawks didn’t need the OLB in the first round… but if he turns out good – then I don’t care because they’ve wasted too many high picks on guys they “need” who turn out crappy. That only makes things worse and part of the reason this roster isn’t good.

    But, man, it really sucks to not have a good draft situation until 2023. There’s a real chance, aside from DK, the 2018-2022 drafts could really suck.

    • charlietheunicorn says:

      Wagner, Brooks and Wright are rounding into form…. make a very good LB 3 some now.

      Lewis was probably the best pick they have had in a long time.
      A need position on the team … forever… competent OL from the get-go, day one and out of the box.

      • BobbyK says:

        Yes. Lewis has been great. Not quite like DK, but very good. He’s made a few rookie mistakes, but that only shows how good he’s going to be with experience. We don’t have to worry about RG for about a decade.

  20. Rick Mirer Fan Club says:

    Probably has been brought up before but I always think about 2017 and trading our pick to the Falcons and they take Takk, we trade back and grab Malik… I’ll shut up now it’s sad to think about.

  21. cha says:

    I wrote up a couple posts this offseason talking about the “true cost” of Darrell Taylor, and what those precious picks could have been used for instead. And that was even before we knew how long his injury would keep him out.

    It’s coming back up again and making me sick inside. So I’ve got to vomit them out.

    1.Stay put. Keep #59 and 101.
    Denzel Mims and Saadhiq Charles. A weapon for Russ to pair with DK and a LT to groom behind Duane Brown.

    Jeremy Chin and Leki Fotu. A safety and some interior DL help.

    Or trade down and stockpile some picks. You can make a bold trade later in the summer for Yannick Ngakoue or even that safety from the Jets knowing you’ve got lots of promising rookie talent already in the pipeline.

    2. Trade #101 to Jacksonville for Calais Campbell and Leonard Fournette.
    Jacksonville traded Campbell to the Ravens for #157 (please, let’s not go round and round again about Campbell ‘picking’ Baltimore. He literally said he didn’t). They’re happy to dump salary and would jump at the chance to get a higher pick.

    Fournette is on the outs with the Jags at this moment in time, that whole sleeping in meetings thing was being leaked. The Jags ended up cutting him and eating $6m in salary later in the year. So why not get them to pay some of his salary in this trade for a handsome pick a little earlier?

    The Seahawks get Campbell. The monster in the middle they so badly need, to pair with Reed and Poona.

    The Seahawks get Leonard Fournette. So no need to go get Carlos Hyde. Fournette and Carson. What a pairing.

    AND they still have their 2nd round pick. Denzel Mims? Jeremy Chen? Willie Gay? Justin Madubieke or Davon Hamilton? Julian Okwara or Jabari Zuniga? All available to you.

    AND they can punt on Deejay Dallas in the 4th if they like. Tyler Biadasz? Shane Lemieux? Just waiting to be drafted.

    3.Use #101 to trade up from #27.
    Get aggressive. Go get Cesar Ruiz, Justin Jefferson or Brandon Aiyuk. Take Willie Gay at #59 and there’s a LB you can work with.

    If I’ve made you sick, I’ve done my job.

    • charlietheunicorn says:

      Trade 4th rounder for D. Hopkins

    • Big Mike says:

      You succeeded cha. Dick
      🙂

    • Scot04 says:

      Regardless of who they would have picked with their original picks; I was surprised they aggressively moved up. Was excited until i saw the pick. I was hoping to see Claypool, Trevon Diggs, or Jaylon Johnson with the pick.
      Then ofcourse they all went right after our pick.
      Seahawks for some reason must have felt very confident with the leg to trade up and get him. I admire them being aggressive, but evaluation definitely should be questioned.
      To not have Taylor play at all this year just makes it worse.

      • Rob Staton says:

        It was the worst year to take a gamble like that, due to Covid and the like of extensive medical testing.

        But that’s what happens when you’re desperate.

        They are far better at reacting in the draft. Their best picks have been because an opportunity arises, rather than aggressively trying to fill needs.

  22. charlietheunicorn says:

    Herbert = Awesome

  23. Mark Dickinson says:

    I saw this team do something I’ve never seen a Pete Carrol team do. They sent in the backups with 3/4 of the 4th quarter in this game. Russel was gone and Geno Smith was out there getting game snaps. Throwing to Cody Parkinson and Dallas running the ball. Then defense did the same with BBK getting a nice hit. The rest of the team got some game reps. This is a young team and I like its makeup. We know what we need to do and that is winning the next 3 games and staying healthy.
    Redskins will be a tough game It will be like the games we had with Panthers. I simply think our offense outscores there offense. It will be a physical game 27-13

  24. Jason says:

    “So basically Penny started for only one season in a conference where a 5-8, 176lbs running back was able to set college records for rushing. This was never enough of a challenge to properly judge his durability, yet it appears to have been one of the determining factors.”

    Is your theory that college players suffer fewer injuries against weaker competition?

    • Rob Staton says:

      No, my theory is exactly what it says in the article.

      This was a conference and a team that created an environment for a 5-8, 176lbs running back to break the NCAA record for rushing yards. And he was a truly unspectacular 5-8, 176lbs running back too.

      So I don’t believe this was a particularly challenging conference — in terms of talent or physicality. Penny playing in it for a year, compared to Nick Chubb playing four years in the SEC, is not a fair comparison in terms of a test of durability.

  25. Hoggs41 says:

    Been watching game film on certain players and Javonte Williams RB from NC has to be on the Seahawks radar. Watching his teammates get all jacked up on the sidelines reminds me of Marshawn.

    • Sea Mode says:

      Wow, you’re right. He’s averaging 7.3 YPC this year. Sets up his blockers (“rides their backs”) very well and is patient. Also seems to have great hands, 25 catches for 305 yds this season to go with this 1140 yds rushing through 11 games. Some really nice snags in highlights.

      Rob, do we have his SPARQ numbers?

      This needs the “it was at that moment that he knew…” voiceover inserted into it:

      https://youtu.be/l-dPltcipeU?t=171

  26. charlietheunicorn says:

    I’ll be honest, out of all the draft picks they have made as of late, not taking Chubb really makes me scratch my head. He was/is everything they want in a RB. But can’t go back now, I’m hoping Penny gives them a spark at RB to make plays Homer couldn’t…. be the 3rd down back, so Carson and Hyde can keep the 1-2 punch smashing people in the face….. he can do the finesse stuff.

    I’m also wondering if they could use him in 2 back sets and get him out on the edge with sweeps or perhaps a few screens. Think of it as a version of the triple option…… Carson could go center, RW could go outside and toss a pass to a TE or WR and Penny could work outside the tackles (pitches or sweeps), but inside the numbers.

    • uptop says:

      One thing I have been harping about is not having a player that can run the jet sweep but I think penny could, lining him up wide and having jet motion. In the Utah UW game the utes has a rb run the sweep (although he fumbled), and it worked quite well. If he comes back in decent shape he could give us the edge stretcher we need to really make defenses stay honest.

    • James Kupihea says:

      I just get really bummed that Penny will likely not have shown much growth when he gets back (can’t blame him, hard to refine your running from the training table). If he gets hurt in his next season, he’ll have followed the Procise trajectory.

      Doubt you’ll see Pete run two-RB sets. Pete’s idea of a two-back system is to have a fresh dancing bear push a pile…however we’ve only observed inconsistent running post-Lynch, outside of Carson (who still has a hard time giving us 16 games), and a series of what-if seasons from a plucky cast of warm bodies.

  27. Tyler says:

    Rob, can you list the people that said Darrell Taylor would go undrafted? All the reports before the draft was he was a solid day 2 pick and I didn’t see anything about him not being drafted because of that injury. It wasn’t like Brandon Coleman years ago where it was kept under wraps, it was pretty well known information. Lance Zierlein and Tony Pauline had him there and they have all the inside buzz. I agree with most of your takes, I feel like the team had gotten too cute with trading down during the years and they want to get their guys even if they have to pay a little more.

    • Rob Staton says:

      Several suggested it, including Tony. The point was that nobody was able to test serious injuries due to the pandemic. Taylor was merely an example of a player in that situation. He wasn’t able to do anything pre-draft. How could a team seriously feel confident he would pass a medical? There were others in that situation too. But Taylor very much was one of those individuals.

      • Tyler says:

        They took a chance with DK’s medical and he dropped because of the medical in addition to the three cone. Would you be saying the same if they picked Uche instead? Just because they picked a guy you didn’t really highlight compared to Uche doesn’t mean he’s Malik McDowell

        • Rob Staton says:

          1. We spent a lot of time talking about Darrell Taylor

          2. The situations are completely different because DK Metcalf’s injury could be thoroughly checked at the combine and in subsequent testing whereas Taylor’s couldn’t due to the global pandemic

          3. I love it when people come on here with a sassy attitude just to be a wanker

    • Ashish says:

      At the worst they could have selected in 2nd round regular position, instead of trading up. That was without a doubt a stretch. Well it is what it is. Hope they learn from it.

  28. DriveByPoster says:

    It’s an interesting point you make about the ‘hawks being good at opportunistic picks. I think it was the same with Jarran Reed too. A first round talent available in the 2nd. It seems that PC/JS are very good at identifying first round talent & not afraid to go after it when they see an opportunity, but they aren’t so good when presented with multiple options.

    As a side note, we know that they like to trade down for multiple extra picks but do we have any evidence that this is at all effective at delivering players that actually contribute in a meaningful way on the pitch?

  29. McZ says:

    Superb summary. Absolutely agree on finding success through opportunistic no-brainer picks.

    Only disagreement is about Clowney. After watching him forcing his way out of Texas while being tagged, they should have expected and planned for the worst.

  30. L80 says:

    I’m still looking at the McDowell pick as the one they REALLY needed at that time and the impact of his not even playing set all of the things in the article into a complete failure.

    Hard to predict or handicap injuries however. Up until his knee, Penney showed a lot in that one year in college and last year was really flashing. He still has a chance and Collier is beginning to play better.

    I have to give them credit for the Dunlap and Reed acquisitions.

    • Miami Hawk says:

      Agreed. It seems the McDowell pick not working out at all really has monkey wrenched the way they see their options on the DL. Getting a top pass rusher requires a lot more draft capital than we have ever had since the beginning of PCJS era. Any guy they are looking at will have some caveats and/ or red flags. I have heard many commenters on other sites criticize that pick as if his accident was somehow predictable because he had ” character issues” which is ridiculous.

      They had to get somebody to play DE on a rookie contract and Collier, while he never looked like a stud, did appear to be of starter quality. Since that has not worked out they went for Taylor who looked like he would be a stud but was an injury risk. Their doctors OK’d him so they went for it and so far, it didnt work out.

      Getting high upside pass rushers in the draft when you start picking in the 20s requires you make risky picks on guys with red flags. Sometimes it works out like with Clark as a glaring example, and sometimes a McDowell or Taylor happens.

      • pdway says:

        McDowell situation was a real killer, total position of need, and when the accident happened (which I don’t blame the team for it all – who can foresee that kind of flukey thing)- – we traded a 2nd for one year of Sheldon Richardson, which also didn’t work out long term.

  31. Big Mike says:

    What makes no sense in their approach is that they seemingly chose Penny over Chubb because he had fewer injury concerns yet they gambled on Taylor’s health despite the debacle of Malik McDowell based on their own inability to fix the pass rush. Certainly smacks of a move based on desperation, as does trading the farm and the vacation home for Adams.
    What I see here is 2 people in charge that have definitely slipped when it comes to job performance. I have serious doubts if they’ll ever regain their footing.

    • BobbyK says:

      Even if they regained their footing… does it matter if you have no draft picks???

      I’m most frustrated by them trading so many picks away… to only have one pick on the first two days of the draft this year and then not even to have their first round pick the following year is unforgivable to me. The only way I’m cool with it is if they win the Super Bowl this year and Adams is a big reason for it. Then you’ll never hear me complain about it again because nothing matters if you win the Super Bowl. I won’t even care if they suck next year if it means they win the SB this year. I’ll take that any day over a pair of 11-5 seasons with an early playoff exit each year.

  32. Tree says:

    Great article Rob. I wanted Chubb and Montez as the draft boards fell in 18 and 19. But I think Penny would be highly productive (a Shaun Alexander type RB) if he was healthy and you gave him the rock (in fact he has been other than early in his rookie year). Having Carson emerge as one of the best backs in the league allowed the team to progress but we probably win the NFC west last year and an extra game or two this year with Chubb or even a healthy Penny. I think getting rid of our young LEOs and not drafting any in 19 was the biggest mistake. But say we stay at 22 and don’t trade down for extra picks. Do we get DK (one of the best if not the best player in the draft)? Also a lot of the alternatives have busted themselves or have not made much of an impact yet (ditto for most of the free agent pass rushers who would not have fixed the pass rush and may have handcuffed the cap for years). Despite all the mistakes we have gotten better every year and I still think this team can make a SB run this year.

  33. BobbyK says:

    What they really need to do this year, with that one singular pick is simply go into the draft without a glaring need and be handcuffed into taking someone because of the said need. Then simply take whoever they think is the best football player, regardless of position. I don’t know why the hell teams don’t do this more often because it makes so much sense. I don’t care if they draft from a position of perceived strength if that player turns out good. I’d say QB the the only position they don’t really need.

  34. Matthew Weber says:

    This is great analysis Rob. I think this really illustrates the difficulty in reloading a good team as opposed to a complete rebuild. When you start from scratch you have good picks at each round and are really able to go for BPA based upon how you want to rebuild your team. You need pretty much everything so can take whomever is available that is just damn good at football. Watching the Dolphins masterful complete rebuild in 2 seasons has been illustrative. You need talent at every position so you can get pretty much whomever you want and let the draft come to you.

    When you are trying to reload a a good team you have very specific needs that need to be filled in order to get over the specific weaknesses that prevent you from going to the next level. That is much more difficult since there simply might not be much available at a price you can or are willing to afford. We have been a pass rush, healthy running backs, and decent secondary from being there.

    They have tried to build the DL from the draft but that simply hasn’t worked out as much to injuries and bad luck as to less than brilliant choices. The same thing with the secondary. So they have traded and one thing I will say, JS seems to be consistently on another level as a horse trader in terms of getting value (Clowney and Dunlap). He only seems to overpay when he goes for a serious guy they believe is a game changer on the team at the time. (Harvin and Adams).

  35. Jawbreaker says:

    Had they taken Nick Chubb or Ronald Jones II, most would’ve applauded the move (unless your part of the anti-run movement). They clearly think Penny is a better option. So give them the benefit of the doubt and let’s see how he gets on.

  36. cha says:

    PC said this morning that Dunbar & Olsen are game time decisions but have been practicing.

    Shell hasn’t practiced yet and will be a game time decision.

    • Big Mike says:

      Chad Wheeler vs. Chase Young? For the love of God Pete/Schotty, RUN THE DAMNED BALL!! (and then run it some more and when you’re not running it, get the ball out of Wilson’s hands in less than 2.0)

      • Big Mike,

        Pete’s quote that Rob put out there is that Schotty got a good talking to about running long developing plays. Getting the ball out of RW’s hands in tempo was the first call of the day and you could see it against the Jets.

        DK ran a whole bunch of 8yard hook routes inside the zone and Russ hit him on his fifth step. That’s how you take away the toy of your glory hound QB.

  37. Ashish says:

    I feel giving a benefit of doubt to PC/JS but then too many Malik McDonnell selection in last 3 years. I feel first domino fell when we selected Malik McDonnell. Don’t get me wrong, guy would have followed simple safety steps, he could have been Frank Clark.

    Do you guys think they internally accept their mistake?

    • Ashish,

      Thought they really lost their MOJO after the Malik pick.

      But instead of going more conservative – like choosing the obvious talent from a Power 5 conference in highly rated groups – they have DOUBLED down on the maxim that we are the smartest guys in the room, like the Taylor move.

      And not being able to live with/coach up Frank Clark, that’s the disaster right there!

    • Sea Mode says:

      Rosie O’Donnell

  38. OlyHawkfan says:

    Great article Rob. This insight into the nuts and bolts of the organization is none existent elsewhere. I’d say the Penny pick was more of a miss than a big mistake – they took their guy and he didn’t pan out as well as Chubb. The list of other Hawks RBs above show many busts sans Chubb, and it looked like Penny was coming around before the injury.

    The other two draft mistakes are spot on. Trading Clark at the time seemed ok and I remember most people being excited to see what PCJC could do with two 1st round picks. Yet after their guys went, they should have pivoted towards BPA and cleaned up the pass rush in FA, which is what they tried to do with Clowney. Or just trade up and get Gary or Burns and still get Clowney.

    The real stinger for me was this last offseason. It seemed so clear, to a point where a mild mannered football fan such as myself could see the path (thanks in part to your many articles). As soon as Clowney balked, move the F on. By their own assessment he wasn’t elite (and his current season proves it). So give him a week and then move on and grab anyone off the long list of FAs. They still could have grabbed Dunlap later. Frustrating.

    Question to Rob and/or the community: How have Rashan Gary and Brian Burns done since entering the league?

    Thanks Rob. Keep up the good work and go Hawks!

  39. C Dub says:

    Good article. Seems like the Seahawks, are constantly “behind” on roster construction, trying to make up for a thin roster. They are thin at OL DB DL LB. I’m really curious how they will turn things around with limited draft picks. Trying to get too cute all these years. The tough aggressive identity of the team has been gone for years. Penny over Chubb? Malik over TJ Watt? Come on guys!

    Where do you guys see the team going in the future with limited picks?

  40. Volume12 says:

    I wonder how the Colts feel about that ’19 class of WRs. Passed on Deebo, DK, and AJ Brown just to trade down for… Parris Campbell? 😬

  41. RWIII says:

    Anyone can pick the winner of a race after the race is over.

    • Big Mike says:

      You mean like what Rob did with Damien Lewis?

      • Mike says:

        I’m pretty sure reading the mock drafts rob had Damien Lewis going way before the Seahawks drafted him and Was excited when the seahawks were able to get him, so this criticism makes no sense lol.

        • Big Mike says:

          It wasn’t criticism. It was an example of Rob “picking a winner” before the draft which RWIII insinuated, wait….stated he hasn’t done.
          I meant it to be a subtle jab at RWIII. Apparently it was too subtle?

          • Mike says:

            Sorry didn’t get the joke. Probably more me being dumb than it being too subtle.

            Reading back on it I think we were in agreement. I remember Rob being high on Damien Lewis and it looks like that has turned out to be The hawks best pick. My bad for not getting the jab. Cheers.

    • Rob Staton says:

      And anyone can be a prick in a comments section

    • BobbyK says:

      But I remember reading many times prior to the draft where Rob said (over and over) that Chubb was the ideal Seahawks RB (He loved Chubb and Jones especially). I know that he’s the RB I wanted – those comments can be found. So when people say things before they happened – I think they have a more of a right to raise those concerns again.

      I remember when Tim Ruskell was the GM and people would get mad at me on the old TNT blog because “I wasn’t a NFL employee” and Ruskell was. Except everything I was saying was true and Ruskell was an idiot.

      There was a time almost a decade ago where Pete and John were innovators and good drafters (Ruskell once helped secure Warren Sapp and Derrick Brooks in the same draft!) and now they have become the Tim Ruskell of Seahawks history these last few years. They bring in free agent bums like Irvin, Mayowa, Olsen… and give them well more than they deserve and they are drafting a McDonalds eating Penny over a passionate Chubb (Chubb loves/cares about football), taking character risks like Malik McDowell instead of TJ Watt (which many here were SCREAMING before the fact not to do), and then the medical bust of Darrell Taylor. These are truly idiotic moves that cost people jobs over 3 years… but they don’t have to worry about their jobs because they drafted Russell Wilson almost a decade ago, just like Ruskell would have never lost enough games to get fired had he had one of the top 5 QBs in the NFL, too.

      I do not think Schneider is a moron. I think he’s lost his way and can rediscover that drafting good players instead of reaching for positions, except I worry he’s traded all his good picks away to prove anything to us.

      • Big Mike says:

        One helluva post BobbyK. They’ve become Ruskell is sad but true. I’ve never seen it that way but I agree. 🙁

        • BobbyK says:

          It never crossed my mind (thankfully) to compare Ruskell to Schneider. However, it all started last off-season with the Irvin, Mayowa, Finney, Ogbuehi, Olsen, and Shell signings. It so reminded me of adding crap like Julius Jones, Edgerrin James, and TJ Duckett (and Brian Russell… lol).

          There’s always swings and misses and regular depth signings… but the body of work that Carroll/Schneider did this past off-season was 100% Tim Ruskell. It just seems they were all about adding crap that was proven crap and hoping it wouldn’t be crap. In the case of Olsen, I don’t mean he’s been crap his whole career, but taking his age and injury risks into consideration – it was definitely a crap signing for 2020. Therein lies the frustration. Only the Shell signing has been a pleasant surprise to me. If Carroll/Schneider did not have Russell Wilson – I am convinced both would have been fired by now if we judged them from their 2013-2020 drafts. If you take Wilson off this team and give them and extra $15 million in cap space (because a crappy QB like Teddy Bridgewater still costs $20 million per year) there’s no way that offsets the loss of losing a superstar QB who is so good that he’ll never allow you to have a 4-12 type season (and you can keep your job).

        • OlyHawkfan says:

          A bit harsh. Clark had character issues. DK had injury issues. Yes they’ve made some bad calls but not every draft is going to yeld what they did early on. I know that’s not your point – to recreate the early magic every year – but I do feel like those early drafts were once in a lifetime and that sometimes is the bar for us Hawks fans.

          • BobbyK says:

            Yes. They did set the bar high early on. But some of these drafts have been so bad in recent years and so avoidable if they had drafted the best football player available instead of trying to fill holes so badly. Like TJ Watt. If we had him over McDowell – then it would have been more affordable to lose Clark (save money, add picks) and then they never would have been forced into a corner to draft DE bums like Collier and Taylor because they’d have already had Watt.

            That’s why I’m starting to become fine with the Jordyn Brooks pick. He’s looking like he’s developing into a good player. I’d so much rather have good players even at positions of somewhat strength than reaching for bums like Collier and Taylor.

            • OlyHawkfan says:

              totally agree. And I do think they’ve almost gotten in their own way in the past several years. Maybe tried to get too cute with it. My point was they have hit some home runs too, but their wiffs have been pretty hard to recover from. Maybe McDowell would have been a perennial pro bowler if he would have put a freaking helmet on. Appreciate your insight though BobbyK.

      • 12th chuck says:

        ruskekell was an idiot. keep 2 kickers on the roster, letting hutch go, signing winstom, giving mega deal to the softest running back in the league, trading for branch, drafting curry….. he inherited a superbowl caliber team and squandered it away,

        • BobbyK says:

          He actually signed Patrick Kerney, not Wistrom. But you’re right that he inherited a SB team and squandered it away.

          But what the Seahawks have done starting with the 2013 draft has been very much like what Ruskell would do in terms of free agency (regimes have very different views on drafting though).

          • 12th chuck says:

            there is some truth to that, we don’t hear “in pete we trust” much nowadays Maybe the only plus side, pete wasn’t totally locked in with some of his moves lendale white, percy, flynn etc. He was pretty quick to let them go if it didn’t work out. Lets hope it stays that way

        • Big Mike says:

          In fairness to Ruskell, and it pains me to say this, he was backed into a corner with Alexander. Just came off a record setting season and if he doesn’t re-sign him the fans storm his office and burn it down. Hutch however, was total shit and he did it behind Holmy’s back. Inexcusable douchery.

  42. Robert says:

    Alex Smith is out

    • Big Mike says:

      Just heard that. PLEASE Pete, make Haskins beat you like you DIDN’T do with Colt McCoy. Again, run the effing ball and run it some more.

      • dcd2 says:

        Gibson is out too. If Peyton Barber beats us on the ground, I’ll puke. Revenge game for JD McKissick though.

        Frankly, if we put focus on Terry, I don’t see how that offense gets anything going against us.

        On the other hand, their DL is one of the best in the league. I’m not sure pounding the rock is the way to beat them. I’d rather see quick passes with some screens and draws mixed in.

  43. jopa726 says:

    Last game of the regular season will be played in Arizona.

    @nwagoner
    #49ers will finish their season in Arizona, playing their January season finale against Seattle there. This was expected from moment team moved to Arizona and is now official with Santa Clara County extending their restrictions.

    • Big Mike says:

      Not in the least bit surprised. With no home crowds it really doesn’t matter where you play this year. I heard somewhere that winners are about 50/50 home and away which is not usually the case. I think the split is like 60/40 home when crowds ae in the stands.

  44. Paul Cook says:

    Fun write up to read. Read like a murder mystery.

    • Rob Staton says:

      Hopefully a Poirot. I’ve always liked Poirot.

      • Rob,

        Favorite girlfriend. Belgian. Same last name.

      • cha says:

        “The truth, however ugly in itself, is always curious and beautiful to seekers after it. Everything must be taken into account. If the fact will not fit the theory – let the theory go. You gave too much rein to your imagination. Imagination is a good servant, and a bad master. The simplest explanation is always the most likely.”

  45. Julian Langdon says:

    I think roster building through the draft has been poor in recent years. Schneider and Carroll need to stick with their first round pick. The odds of selecting a pro bowl player if taking ‘taking the best player available’ are around 50% in the first round and increased the earlier you take them. The team are only reducing their chance of getting a top player if trading back.
    Even if the roster gets heavy in a particular position from the draft, the way to get more picks is to trade good players from the roster in subsequent seasons as the Ravens did with Hayden Hurst (getting a 2nd round pick) having Mark Andrews on the same roster.

  46. BoiseSeahawk says:

    Yea is it wrong to see Brooks as a bit of a bust?
    I’m starting to see it that way but I hope he proves me wrong. Could have drafted Jeremy Chinn!! Again a player that just screamed Seahawks SS.

    • I am too. Brooks looked good in conference that doesn’t play defense. Even worse than the Pac-12.

      Same problem with taking Penny. Film deceives when he is running against JV guys

    • BobbyK says:

      I am actually warming up to the Brooks pick. I don’t see him as Pro Bowl good, but I think he’s going to be a good solid player moving forward. He’s going to be better at what he does than any of these guys ever did in their first 4 years as Seahawks:

      Carpenter, Irvin, Ifedi, Collier, Penny

      Remember: Irvin wasn’t a great pick. He wasn’t even a starter in his second year with the Seahawks when they won the Super Bowl. Malcolm Smith was MVP because Irvin was healthy and watching the game from the bench. If he was good, they would have picked up his fifth-year option. There’s a reason they didn’t.

    • Rob Staton says:

      Jeremy Chinn for a late second, or Jamal Adams for two firsts, a third and McDougald, not to mention a looming $18m a year deal.

      🤦‍♂️

    • TJ says:

      I think its way too soon to call him a bust… way too soon. He is a rookie starter who shows flashes and looks like he can be a good one in the coming years. He has the tools. J. Adams was praised for his pursuit across the field on the long NYG run, but it was Brooks who chased the play down and made the tackle. I hated the pick in April/May, but am cool with it now.

  47. A, Chris says:

    I personally think Jordyn Brooks looks like a baller. Being able to develop him alongside KJ and Bobby is an ideal scenario in my mind. He’s the future of the LB core and he is much better off picking it up from those to vets. Plus we get to see a KJ resurgence at Strong!

    PC has always prioritized getting guys healthy. Getting an extra game or two out of Taylor this late in the season is not necessary, so play it safe and make sure he’s right. Nagging injuries are a death sentence in this league. Invest now and reap later.

    • Rob Staton says:

      It’s pretty clear it’s not the Seahawks holding Taylor back.

      His leg has healed, technically. Carroll stated clearly — the player doesn’t feel right.

      Which is concerning.

    • TomLPDX says:

      You really couldn’t ask for a better learning experience for Brooks in his rookie year. I hope we are able to keep KJ a year or two longer at an appropriate cost and have these 3 together for a little bit longer. It was also nice to see BBK finally get some reps last week.

    • Alex H says:

      At the time of the draft, I was fine with Brooks as the pick last year if they truly believed he was the best player on the board. LB may not have been the most pressing need, but it easily could be foreseen as a need within 1 year with KJ going year by year and Bobby’s decline. Drafting him a year “early” ensures that he has time to learn along the two so that when the transition happens, it’s seamless. It’s also why you should go BPA. You never know where your needs will pop up. FA (and the trade market) is meant to round out whatever needs you still have after the draft is done. If you really do have a logjam at a position, that’s one strong player that you can package in a deal for a player in your position of need.

  48. Michael P Matherne says:

    Fantastic retrospective. Every time I see Chubb score another touchdown I shake my head. I was absolutely convinced the ‘Hawks were gonna take him. As far as medical evaluation goes, it seems to me the focus should be shifted a little. I’m no doctor, and of course you have to get a good look at knees that have been surgically repaired, etc. But it seems like the bigger concern should be the guys that are consistently banged up in college. Anyone can tear a ligament. They can only take so much force before they snap. If a guy makes it back and looks just as good as before I’d rather have him than the dude who is always missing a week or two here and there for this, that and the other.

    • Rob Staton says:

      And if a player comes back, dominates the SEC, helps his team to the National Championship game, has an amazing combine and is basically the prototype RB for your team…

      Draft him.

  49. Martin says:

    Would be very interested to see what a Seahawk roster would look like if constructed by JS alone, without PC’s incredibly large, looming presence. This is Pete’s show, top to bottom, front to back and sideways. Complete control. How this paring REALLY works in the draft and FA process….we’ll probably never know for sure. I guess I’m saying that I have more faith in JS than having PC with his hands in everything. As long as PC is here, the point is moot, however.

  50. cha says:

    Friday Press Conf w PC

    [ben] Penny, Dunbar, Olsen look? Sunday? “Practiced this week made it. We have options let you know.”

    [Curtis] Shell and Dunlap? “Held Shell out again, but Dunlap practiced today. Game day decision for both.”

    [Michael Shawn] Dunbar ready, nickel DJ and Ugo? “Why would I say that now? Fine question (laughs)”
    [Michael] Tre Flowers? “Next week. Excited to go, he’ll have to show he’s ready.”

    [matt calkins] Metcalf 2nd year breaking Largent record? Game ball? “Good chance w 3 weeks to go. Not concerned about it. No pre-thought about a game ball. I don’t even know what pre-thought means.”

    [chris francis] Haskins thoughts? Dropped INTs in game? “Grooming to be a big-timer. A lot of ribbing with the INTs. Unfortunately for those guys it’s been shown on film way too many times this week.”

    [bob condotta] Ogbuehi at RT if need? “Fine athlete, got a tremendous upside. Great challenge for him to play. Gonna have to play really well. Really capable, great future.”
    [bob] SF game in Arizona? “Wherever. Been both places so it won’t matter. We’ll be alright.”

    [AJ] Haskins starter change prep? “We have enough background, their offense didn’t change. He’s come right along as season has evolved. Doesn’t change us. Have to be ready for things they might alter.”

    [brady] Turf at Fedex? Impact decision on Penny? “Doesn’t impact thinking at all. Equip guy telling us what footwear needs to be and we’ll be ready to go.”

    [art] Pac12 championship? “I don’t think we’re qualified for that, maybe a couple more wins. Oregon vs UsC? Strawberry cheesecake on the line. Ugo better pay up. Great matchup. SC really battled through season, won some great games.”

    [joe fann] Chance for Dunbar, Olsen, Olsen? Ruled any out? “Always a chance.”
    [joe fann] 2 weeks Taylor injection, update? “No further update, waiting and seeing. Here with us. Not able to do a lot of stuff. Start all over again Monday, see what trainers.”
    [joe fann] Start all over mean?? “Reevaluate whether he can play with us.”

    [Gregg bell] Can you imagine coaching a CFB team during COVID? [cha ed yuck]
    [Gregg] Dissly pass pro? “He’s worked hard at that. When he’s called on he’s usually got the edge guys who are flying. Strong, good base about him, worked hard technique-wise. Competitive nature. Real battler.”

    [Curtis crab] Homer injury status? Jones and Haynes? “All 3 in long-term situations. Figuring out what to do next. Homer wrist and knee, long haul for him to get back. Working on what’s going on with those guys. Grey area. Just hang on for a couple more days, make sense.”
    [Curtis] Boone from SF Solari guy? “Yes, turned around his thinking, wants to play. Brought in some young guys as well. Gonna turn a little when the guys we’ve brought in settle.”

    • cha says:

      Sounds like one or all of Homer, Jones and Haynes are going on IR

      • BobbyK says:

        Seahawks Fans – thoughts on Haynes:

        Cost effective player. Young. Does he have a future? Is he really hurt or do they need to “stash” him somewhere?

        I really thought last year he could be the LG of the future (at least for 4 years with minimal salary) especially at the end of the season. Since they have Ifedi and Simmons both ‘healthy’ at LG for ‘now’ maybe it’s just coincidence he could go on IR?

        • BobbyK says:

          I meant Iupati… not Ifedi. Sorry.

        • cha says:

          They’re really going to have to take a hard look at Haynes this offseason. That’s two seasons wiped out by injury. It’d be really hard to plan for him to be a real contributor. Maybe it’s like Pocic, once they get the health issue worked out he can be a usable piece.

          He did show decently in the Packers playoff game.

    • bmseattle says:

      Pete on Ogbuehi:
      “Really capable, great future.”

      Case in point why these press conferences are useless.

  51. Michael P Matherne says:

    Pete just got asked a question about Darrell Taylor and the frustration was plain on his face. It seems like this is one of those situations where the doctors say he’s totally good, but the mental confidence to play on it just isn’t there.

      • dcd2 says:

        I found it interesting when someone posted his IG account awhile back. I went on there and the thing that stood out to me, was that there were no football pics. None of him in college. None of being drafted, or even wearing any Seahawks gear.

        Pretty much every NFL player that is on there (based on my 2 minutes of searching) has mostly pics of them playing football.

        Reminded me of the Penny-McDonalds thing (or Malik’s general demeanor). Where you wonder if they really care about football all that much. Might be reading into it too much, but it’s worrisome that the docs are signing off on him and he isn’t willing to give it a go.

        • Sea Mode says:

          Really great point there. Most guys like that are also posting workout videos of their recovery progress and how eager they are to get back and contribute. Pretty surprising tbh given how much of a heart and soul player he seemed to be at Tenn.

          When I looked at his Insta a while back, it also seemed like he already comes from a bit of money too. (Or at least he is trying to give off that impression). Not sure if that affects the (lack of) hunger for him at all to claw his way back from adversity. Just a really strange situation.

          Best case scenario is that maybe he simply made up his mind early on that he needed a whole year to heal completely and is holding out for next season. Sounds pretty hopeful at this point to think that, though…

    • Big Mike says:

      Please folks, resign and brace yourselves to what appears to be the inevitable…that he never plays a down in the NFL.

      • BobbyK says:

        Malik McDowell gave us good practice with low expectations.

        • Scot04 says:

          Atleast McDowell has tried to catch on with teams since being ruled to injured to keep by the Seahawks. After being waived he’s came back into see a few NFL teams. In McDowell’s case who could have expected his accident. A horrible one and he still wants to play.
          Taylor get cleared and chooses not to. How do you give a 2nd & 3rd for that.
          Moe disappointed with the Taylor situation Atleast for now.

    • BobbyK says:

      I have heard the Seahawks were prepared to take Darrell Taylor with their first round pick if Jordyn Brooks had been gone (especially after their ‘almost’ trade with Green Bay).

      Would that have been a better scenario? They wouldn’t have traded up in the second round only to waste the Earl Thomas 3rd round comp pick had they already had their edge rusher?

      But what would they have done with their #2/3? Chinn? Logan Wilson? I know some of us liked Uche (another edge) but he appears to be a bust, too. DaV. Hamilton? He’s been solid as a rookie, whereas Uche hasn’t been good.

      If I critically analyze what I’d do in each draft (or would have done – based on my comments in the archives), I’m not too proud to admit I have plenty of screw-ups. Pete and John have all their decisions based on what they actually did in view of the world, which comes with the job. I know I would not have had the historic draft of 2012 if I’d been in charge (Wagner, Wilson). I wouldn’t have been smart enough for Sherman either.

      But these drafts in more recent years – I think a circus monkey could be better than Malik McDowell? Penny? Darrell Taylor? Collier? Huh? That’s as historically bad (fire worthy) as the first 3 years of drafting was good.

      Basically, I blame this Taylor pick on Irvin/Mayowa (and Clowney). But as I wrote earlier – I also blame it on drafting a moron like Malik McDowell over TJ Watt.

      • Scot04 says:

        And if McDowell was never in the ATV accident we might be saying how great a pick it was. With Taylor they supposedly had him in their facility before the combine. That’s why they felt comfortable. Evidently they didn’t investigate his desire to play to a great extent. Atleast we know the reason now, key is will Taylor want to get on a field again; and if so can he still play without holding back.

        • BobbyK says:

          My problem with McDowell is his character concerns. Look at the crap he pulled before the ATV accident. Look at the crap he’s pulled after the Seahawks released him (he’s been arrested a couple times).

          My point is that when you draft morons – the probability of them being morons and doing stupid things remain higher than drafting someone without those concerns. Could anyone have predicted an ATV accident? No. But I think you could predict and incident like he pulled in Atlanta a couple years ago – which would have most likely led to a league suspension, because he’s a moron.

          Morons tend to have more moronic things happen. They just create those opportunities for themselves.

  52. jujus says:

    I still believe that They were targeting Jeffrey Simmons the year the titans grabbed him.

  53. Kenny Sloth says:

    What kind of name is Kedon Slovis?!?!?!?

  54. Kenny Sloth says:

    😳😳😳 come on you ducks

  55. BobbyK says:

    I’ve commented a lot on this post. I’m sorry (or thank you for the opportunity).

    There are plenty of reasons the Seahawks have sucked recently in drafting players. But what do they learn?

    I fear the Christine Michael pick really screwed them over in ’13 in terms of drafting the BPA. They did, I think, and he sucked (but the Frank Clark/Tyler Lockett pick in ’15 helped them justify things). And they wasted that pick. Even though it was BPA.

    I understand why they screwed up on Penny over Chubb. I know the archives show/prove I was a Chubb guy (many of us were over all others after Barkley), but I get it (as Rob alluded to above).

    However, Malik McDowell was too early for such a character concern. The red flags were there. All over with that guy. Sure, nobody ever considered an ATV accident – but look at all the other variables. Unbelievable.

    Doctors during Covid19 and Darrell Taylor? For me, that’s kind of unforgivable. If you take him… you sure as hell take someone with that risk with a SINGULAR pick. The Seahawks didn’t. They traded a pair of day two picks on that worthless investment. You trade for a healthy player, not someone with… you know, the rest of the story…

    • Alex H says:

      Willing to wait a bit more on the Taylor situation. By all accounts, it seems like the deal with the Hawks is that they were able to get their doctors to see Taylor before the COVID thing hit. From that early access, they had an upper hand on the medicals vs all the other teams that couldn’t see Taylor’s medical. I’m guessing they always keyed in on him and prioritized getting his medical early on the process due to how much they liked him from the tapes.

      Fast forward to the present, it seems like the leg is healed (admittingly with something extra) so in that sense, the Hawks kind of got it right. What the Hawks probably didn’t foresee is Taylor’s hesitance or the mental roadblock.

  56. Sea Mode says:

    So did we end up not signing Boone and instead these two OTs, Wyatt Miller and Andrew Jones?

  57. Sea Mode says:

    Wow, Mariota out there playing like he wants a starting gig back. Impressive.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/Raiders/status/1340054233727549442

  58. Rob Staton says:

    If the PAC 12 was a player, it’d be a 190lbs running back who fumbles a lot.

    Or Josh Rosen.

  59. charlietheunicorn says:

    I love it when people come on here with a sassy attitude just to be a wanker ~ Rob

    Such a great line…. wanker is under utilized in the states. 😉

  60. Marco says:

    As soon as the Redskins drafted Sweat 26th overall, I was really disappointed because it seemed that his heart condition, while serious, didn’t seem as bad as I was reading from different sources.

    The Seahawks were/are desperate for players just like Sweat, so why not take that risk on a physical specimen like this?

    Would rather have gambled on Sweat, than an injured player like Taylor, though I don’t mind the Taylor pick, even though I would’ve preferred to stay put, and keep the 3rd round pick they used to trade up for him.

  61. cha says:

    Jeremy Fowler
    @JFowlerESPN
    ·
    12m
    Seahawks RB Rashaad Penny is set to make his season debut against Washington, per source. Barring a change today, Seattle is expected to activate the former first-round pick off IR. Been a long road from a knee injury. TE Greg Olsen (foot) is considered a longer shot.

  62. AlaskaHawk says:

    Best college games today?

    (3) Clemson vs (2) Notre Dame – feels like a BCS game.

    (1) Alabama vs (7) Florida Gators – probably a wipe out, but what if Florida is competitive?

    Who else will make a good game? Texas A&M vs Tennessee? Stanford vs UCLA? Tulsa vs Cincinnati?

  63. AlphaDK says:

    Rob,

    It’s hard to find stats that rate LBs, and I know it’s a small sample size so far, but Jordyn Brooks’ missed tackle rate of 7% is better than Wagner (8%) and Wright (10%), and much better than Patrick Queen (18%) or Mychal Kendricks (21% missed tackle rate in ’18-19).

    He’s also doing “well” in pass coverage, with a passer rating allowed when targeted of 82, also better than Wagner (86), Wright (113), and Queen (95).

    Am I mistaken, or is Brooks an excellent player flying under the radar?

    • Rob Staton says:

      I think it’s premature to call him an excellent player but he’s had some decent moments, yes. And hopefully he will improve the areas where he’s not so hot given time, he is a rookie after all.

      • Mike says:

        Rob what’s your take on Cody Barton? People seemed to be fairly high on him last year, but he is obviously playing behind a lot of good linebackers

          • Mike says:

            LOL. The Seahawks used to be so good at drafting On defense that they would even hit on 7th round linebackers like Malcolm smith.

            2010-2013: 10 players who have made a pro bowl (okung, Thomas, Tate, chancellor, Baldwin, Browner, Wright, Sherman, Wilson, Wagner).
            With 4 future hall of famers in Thomas, Sherman, Wagner, and Wilson.

            2014-current:4 pro bowlers (Lockett, Clark, Griffin, Dickson). Lockett made it for special teams, Clark made it on the chiefs last year, Griffin was an alternate, and Dickson is good but is a punter. If we’re being fair I will add DK and make it 5.

            As a result of the struggling drafts the best defensive players were either drafted 10 years ago (Wagner, Wright) or traded for (Adams, Dunlap). Leaving them with no draft capital and expensive veterans for the future. Not good.

  64. Volume12 says:

    What a pick! My goodness.

    Ohio St’s in a game here.

  65. pdway says:

    Body type and athleticism-wise . . .does Chase Young remind anyone else of Clowney?

    • Rokas says:

      Not too much tbh. Clowney is stout against the run, nad Young is serviceable. He has a wider arsenal of pass rush moves thouh.

  66. AlaskaHawk says:

    Northwestern playing style is like the Seahawks and Ohio playing style is like the Rams.

    • AlaskaHawk says:

      Ohio State offensive line and Senior running back Trey Sermon are making me drool. He’s making a case for being a first round back as he approaches 300 yards today.

      Northwestern freshman Brandon Joseph has 5 interceptions this year. Made a one handed interception today.

  67. AlaskaHawk says:

    I just read: The Seattle Seahawks will face Dwayne Haskins in their game against Washington on Sunday, as starting quarterback Alex Smith has been ruled out with a calf injury. So that’s good for the Seahawks.

    I think Ohio State has made their case for being rated in the top 4.

  68. Big Mike says:

    Guess I’ll switch from WSU v. Utah to Buffalo at Denver cuz I got a bad feeling Wazzu gonna coug it and lose after having a 21 point lead.
    Oh well, my Zags took care of #3 Iowa this morning. 🙂

  69. cha says:

    https://www.seahawks.com/news/seahawks-activate-rb-rashaad-penny-de-damontre-moore

    Penny and Damontre Moore added to active roster.

    Jamarco Jones and Travis Homer placed on IR.

    No Dunbar and Olsen tomorrow.

  70. Sea Mode says:

    This makes sense:

    Tom Pelissero
    @TomPelissero
    ·1h

    The NFL informed clubs today that players who are current in the league’s COVID testing cadence will be permitted to join or try out for a new club without having to start a new six-day entry testing period, per source — a big deal as teams backfill roster holes down the stretch.

  71. James Kupihea says:

    Wait so…who is getting run over by Sweat first this weekend, Ogbuehi or Shell? Hopefully those boys can slow him down long enough to get some points on the board early.

  72. Rob Staton says:

    PLEASE do not put Notre Dame in the playoffs again.

    • Big Mike says:

      Seriously man. They have no business in the final four. Even if A&M gets waxed it’s not gonna matter cuz ND wouldn’t do any better.

    • Easy Answers Hard Choices says:

      Preaching to the choir, brother. Year in and year out, they are the most overrated team in college football. They’re given a pass, end up in the playoffs, and end up getting SMOKED no matter who they play. Stir, rinse and repeat next year. Like a college football version of Groundhog Day. You’d think Knute Rockne was still their head coach given the nauseating, undeserved deference and adoration they receive. In my mind this is a litmus test regarding the CFP playoff committee. If they put Notre Dame in again we’ll KNOW the CFP is more about brand name and television ratings. And they’re credibility will be shredded….

  73. charlietheunicorn says:

    Fired up to see a complete game for the Seahawks this weekend.
    Follow the same game plan as against the Jets….. winning game plan.
    Add weapons to the offense down the stretch… Penny, Gordon, Olsen…..

    I expect a lower scoring game…. but impose your will. You are the better overall team with a prime time QB. PC just needs to be like Tarkin and allow the team to play like you can and activate the deathstar on Alderaan.

  74. charlietheunicorn says:

    Lionel Messi equalled Brazil legend Pele’s record of 643 goals for a single club by scoring for Barcelona in Saturday’s draw against Valencia.

    :O

  75. Rob Staton says:

    If there’s one place I just cannot imagine Seattle winning in the playoffs, it’s Green Bay.

    • AlaskaHawk says:

      Even if the Seahawks won, that cold winter weather causes so many injuries that they would limp into the next game.

    • In Green Bay we would get torched. We haven’t done well with our scheme covering TEs and that rookie they have is the real deal.

      Mostly, Adams would start his late developing greendog blitzes and Old Man Time would throw where he aint. it would be a long day/night as they have some good RBs too.

      We gotta win the division.

  76. Big Mike says:

    Hawks don’t beat the Rams and don’t win in Green Bay, at least in the last several years on both accounts. In order to get to the super bowl my guess is they’ll have to both.

  77. cha says:

    Was that a little gamesmanship by Simi Fehoko? Faking an injury to stop the clock and give the Cardinal a “free” timeout? He sure looked fine on the next play in.

  78. DC says:

    Florida TE Kyle Pitts is something.

  79. vanhawksfan says:

    Does anyone else here want to see Najee Harris in a Seahawks uniform?????

  80. James Kupihea says:

    Defenseless…but he lowered his head into that…

  81. DAWGfan says:

    Honestly, Malik McDowell was the biggest bust. He showed some promise his Sophomore year but took too many plays off his Jr year. Did not have the heart or drive to be an elite player and it showed on his Jr tape. The fact that we traded down when with TJ Watt was available was questionable, but to take McDowell one pick ahead of Budda is nearly unforgivable. Budda was in a position of need with Thomas being dinged up and close to the end of his tenure, they knew Budda’s background and all of his intangibles. Malik was basically never to be seen due to being a bonehead, and Baker is without question the best safety in the NFL