Is Tyree Wilson really worth a top-five pick?
— They have to be confident they can land impact D-liners in the draft
Last year they carried six defensive linemen on the roster. Currently, they have three. They also need to create cap space just to afford Bobby Wagner’s contract. The prospect of adding more veteran linemen is fairly bleak without major work to improve the financial outlook in the form of extensions or restructures.
I wouldn’t assume this means the #5 pick will be a defensive linemen because, as regulars know by now, I don’t see any prospect of Jalen Carter being selected. I’m also unconvinced by Tyree Wilson as a top-five pick and will discuss why in a moment. I think they’d run to the podium for Will Anderson — but they’d still need interior linemen even if they selected him.
There are a lot of appealing options set to go in the #20-60 range. They can certainly make hay there. Are they backing themselves into a corner though, when there are potential value picks to be had at other positions?
This is a concern I don’t think should be glossed over. I’m seeing a lot of ‘it’ll be fine‘ or ‘it’s early‘ talk on social media. While there’s certainly no need to panic or overreact, they do need to add three defensive linemen who can carry a significant number of snaps. They have a distinct lack of beef up front, despite running a scheme that requires plenty of beef.
I’m eager to see if they can pull some of the levers Curtis talked about yesterday to provide support, while accepting an all-out worry-fest isn’t necessary because they were always going to draft some D-liners. It seems they want to get younger up front anyway with their moves but I do think they’re a veteran short at the moment.
I’m wary of reaching for need, 12 months after they avoided that and had their best draft in years.
The good news is, there are justifiable players you can take at #20, #38 and #53 without reaching — or if they trade up or down from either spot. Adetomiwa Adebawore, Calijah Kancey, Keion White, Mazi Smith, Keeanu Benton, Zacch Pickens, Byron Young, Bryan Bresee. It might’ve been decided the quality is good enough in this range to feel very comfortable going with a long-term view on the defensive line.
I just wouldn’t want to miss out on a Michael Mayer pick, for example, to fill a pressing need.
Pairing someone who is highly athletic and disruptive like Adebawore, Kancey or White with a big nose tackle like Smith is a very enticing prospect.
— There is one significant thing to note about last year which might be relevant
They didn’t re-sign Duane Brown or any kind of hedge at tackle. With hindsight, it looks like they knew there were three offensive tackles available that they liked and one would make it to #9.
Alternatively, they signed Uchenna Nwosu in free agency and clearly felt comfortable waiting until round two to add another pass rusher (Boye Mafe).
Part of me wonders if their lack of action on the D-line hints at a similar approach at #5? Are they banking on a player being there? I just don’t know who it could be. Anderson is an edge rusher not a big-bodied front player. I’m not going over Carter for the millionth time other than to say I see no prospect of him being taken at #5.
— Are they seriously just going to select Tyree Wilson?
I think it would be a decidedly unexciting move. I went back this week and watched him as part of a revision session, which I do with all prospective targets at various points. It just reminded me why I was initially sceptical of him as a really high pick.
Yes the length and size is incredibly enticing. Look at his frame. The term ‘he’s straight out of central casting’ is perfect for players like Wilson.
His bull-rush is very good and those long vines help him control blocks and create opportunities to pressure. He can play along the line and he’s a very forceful, aggressive defender at times. His best snaps are when he barges his way through blocks, often attacking the B-gap inside to split through and create pressure.
However, he is not twitchy off the edge. He’s not going to beat anyone with speed. There are plenty of occasions where the bull-rush stalls and he doesn’t do a good enough job disengaging. There are quite a lot of frustrating snaps where he just goes through the motions when the initial jolt doesn’t create distance from the blocker. You don’t see a ‘hair on fire’ rusher down in, down out.
Here are some quotes from anonymous scouting sources, courtesy of Bob McGinn:
Scout 1 — “He’s not like glass-eater mean. More of a finesse athlete.”
Scout 2 — “You can see he’s got lots of talent but he doesn’t make plays…You just wish he played more consistently and more physical.”
Scout 3 — “He’s going in the first but I don’t love him at all… He’s kind of like the kid from UTSA (Marcus Davenport) the Saints took a couple years ago (2018) that ain’t done that much.”
Scout 4 — “Slow twitch as far as the mind… Doesn’t see blocks coming. Plays high, doesn’t use his hands. He does flash some power as a pass rusher but that’s all he’s got. No speed on the edge, no plan. Just another big guy you’re hoping for as a project to develop. Similar to Emmanuel Ogbah, and he isn’t any good, either.”
In fairness, one other scout also says, “He’s the best one (DE)… When you see the guy you’re, like, ‘Holy shit, that’s how they design them in the lab.’ He looks like a million dollars. The way that he moves around is pretty unbelievable. I wouldn’t even call him a finished product.”
I think he’s become an assumed ‘next best’ defender because of his frame. His tape is very hit-and-miss. He’s really the polar-opposite to Calijah Kancey. Wilson has only flashes on tape with a brilliant frame. Kancey is a consistent dynamo, making plays in a variety of ways, but he has a questionable frame with a lack of size and length.
We also have no idea on testing and upside. He has been recovering from a significant foot injury and didn’t do anything at the combine. It’s been revealed he’s not ready to perform at the Texas Tech pro-day on Wednesday. He’ll need to have a personal pro-day in April.
Wilson wasn’t included in Bruce Feldman’s ‘freaks list’ so we have no public projection data from the school. He didn’t do any SPARQ testing either in High School, as a former three-star prospect who began his college career at Texas A&M and then transferred to Texas Tech.
I don’t think he’s ideally suited to playing defensive end in a 3-4 either and is far better playing off the edge in a 4-3 and kicking inside on certain downs. He’s an inbetweener for Seattle — not in the 280/285 range to play 3-4 DE and not in the 250-255 range to play 3-4 OLB. He weighed 271lbs at the combine.
I find it hard to get behind Wilson as ‘the guy’ you’re going to spend a rare top-five pick on, believing this is the player who can take you to the next level. I think I agree with Mel Kiper — who had him lasting outside the top-10 in his recent mock draft — and Jim Nagy — who suggested top-10/15 as a range rather than top-five when we spoke before the Senior Bowl.
— I still think they’re going to be a lot more comfortable with this QB class than many people are ready to accept
I’ve always been very clear that I am perfectly happy with a defensive line or quarterback pick at #5. I’ve only done one full mock draft with a quarterback at #5, the rest had defensive linemen. At the end of the season, I noted that Seattle were guaranteed to get a top-three QB or one of Anderson or Carter. The only reason I’ve adjusted that to the top-four QB’s and Anderson is due to the legitimate concerns surrounding Carter and the continued rise of Anthony Richardson as a prospect, to the point where — unsurprisingly — his incredible talent and upside is garnering legit top-five chatter.
I do think a lot of fans (and some media) are entrenched though, which I find a bit confusing. They don’t even want to consider a quarterback pick. They cling to Carter as an option, despite so much evidence to the contrary, or they assume Wilson will be a great pick. Or they think Anderson will last, which feels unlikely. I spoke to a scouting friend recently who said Anderson was ‘hands down’ the top defender taken. Unless Arizona trades out of the #3 spot, they’ll almost certainly select him. I think it’ll take a major haul to tempt the Cardinals away from that selection.
I would’ve thought we’d hear two other viewpoints a bit more often.
Firstly, the history John Schneider has with quarterbacks. This is a man who has often sought traits, even at the detriment of ‘finished product’ status. He traded a lot for Charlie Whitehurst who was a big, strong-armed, athletic backup. He fell for Russell Wilson — a big armed, athletic, shorter QB who had everything but ideal height.
He reportedly was prepared to draft Patrick Mahomes in 2017 despite having Wilson under contract. Then, in 2018, he reportedly was willing to trade Wilson for a shot at Josh Allen.
Because Mahomes and Allen have become big success stories, we’ve forgotten what was said about both when they were about to be drafted. I feel like we should keep reminding ourselves of the following:
— Mahomes wasn’t listed in Daniel Jeremiah’s top-50 prospects in his February list ahead of the 2017 draft or an updated version in April, weeks before he was taken 10th overall. Deshone Kizer, however, was ranked on both occasions.
— In Jeremiah’s final April 2017 mock draft, he eventually did include Mahomes in round one at #27 overall. Deshaun Watson wasn’t included in the first frame. They ended up being the #10 and #12 picks respectively.
— Mahomes himself revealed he was given a second round grade by the draft committee.
— Lance Zierlein graded Mahomes at a 6.30 — a lower grade than Drew Lock (6.40). In his report, Zierlein noted: “Mahomes will be a work in progress, but he’s a high ceiling, low floor prospect.”
This is worth remembering when you see and hear people talking about Will Levis and Anthony Richardson as ‘not first round picks’, appearing in mock drafts deep into the first round or ranked low on big boards. Mahomes, the best quarterback in the NFL and a generation-defining talent, wasn’t considered a true first round prospect by many pundits and league sources going into the 2017 draft.
Here’s an article on NFL.com written by Lance Zierlein, discussing Allen during the 2017 college football season:
The scoop: “He scares me like he scares everyone, but he is easily the most physically talented quarterback (in this class). He will get drafted much higher than the level of his tape.” — AFC director of college scouting on Wyoming QB Josh Allen
The skinny: Listed at 6-foot-5, 233 pounds and with high-end arm talent, Allen is the prototype at the quarterback position. However, Allen’s production has been very pedestrian this season (181 yards passing per game, 55.9 percent completion rate, 12 TDs and 6 INTs in 8 games).
His accuracy and decision making are not where they need to be. In comparison, Carson Wentz had very similar physical traits and ability coming out of North Dakota State. He was the No. 2 overall selection of the 2016 draft, but his accuracy and football intelligence were exceptionally high. Coincidentally, Allen’s coach (Craig Bohl) helped groom Wentz at NDSU before being hired at Wyoming.
Allen might make a substantial leap forward with better talent surrounding him than what he’s working with at Wyoming. However, I’m not ready to say he’s a franchise quarterback at this juncture.
It’s impossible not to connect what is written above to what is being said about Levis and Richardson. That doesn’t mean either player is destined to emulate Allen’s career but it does help to explain why Schneider might be willing to overlook certain tape-flaws to bet on upside as he was reportedly willing to do for Allen and Mahomes.
There are also these quotes courtesy of scouting sources produced by Bob McGinn:
On Josh Allen:
“He reminds me of (Blake) Bortles,” a second scout said. “Bortles lacked consistent accuracy and I see the same thing with Allen. Big-time athlete but really an inconsistent passer. I don’t see (Carson) Wentz. Some people do because they had the same coach (Craig Bohl). Wentz was a very mature, confident person.” Two-year starter. “He looks the part and a good athlete,” a third scout said. “But you talk about lacking in being a winning quarterback. He has a lot of bad tape (even) at that level. Somebody will still take him high. Are we going on what the tape is and the production and the winning? Or are we going on this guy looks like he should be an NFL quarterback and how he throws the ball?”
On Mahomes:
“People are trying to make that comparison because of his arm. He’s got a really good arm, but Favre was not as reckless as this guy.
“He’s crazy. He plays crazy. He’ll do anything. I don’t even think “gunslinger’ is the right word. He’s reckless.”
“He’s in ‘that offense’ and the way he plays, he’s very erratic,” another director from an NFC team said. “You can see the talent but he’s just so streaky and wild and reckless. He put a lot of balls up for grabs where you’re saying, ‘Man, what are you going to get with him?’
“He could (come on) but I don’t see it. I just don’t think he has the necessary qualities. He has no vision, no mechanics. He’s erratic as hell. He makes a lot of mistakes. It’s going to be a long (development).”
“Mahomes is the boom or bust guy,” said one of the two evaluators that expected him to fail. “He carries the biggest upside but he does have a bust factor. He’s just going to be inexperienced doing the things he’s going to do here.
“When you start looking at players that play off the script it concerns you, and a lot of what he does is off-script. In the NFL, when you get off-script is when you make big, big errors. It’s not as easy to make the off-script play on our level as it is at Texas Tech.”
Is any more evidence required to highlight how sceptical people were about Mahomes and Allen before the 2017 and 2018 drafts?
There was a genuine fear-factor with both.
Schneider has been attracted to rough diamonds. We shouldn’t rule out the rough diamonds in this draft as options for the Seahawks.
This also brings me onto the second point. Why aren’t we universally trusting Schneider to get this right? His track record of judging QB talent is fairly exceptional. Yet I don’t often read ‘in John we trust’.
If he passes on the fourth quarterback available at #5, I’d respect the decision of a proven evaluator when it comes to QB’s. If he does take a quarterback at #5, are people going to react in the same way? Will they trust his judgement?
Why are we not hearing more often, ‘Schneider might like one of these QB’s and if he does, he should take him’? That feels like a fair position we can all rally behind.
I see very little reason to rule it out at this point. Stroud and Young are not expected to make it to #5, Levis or Richardson might. I think they look exactly like the types of quarterback Schneider covets. For that reason, it warrants greater consideration than it’s getting in some quarters.
The only other thing to mention is cost. Some have challenged whether the Seahawks would be willing to take a quarterback at #5 because it would mean an overall spend of $20m in 2023 on Geno Smith, Drew Lock and a rookie.
When you consider they’re spending $42.6m on four safeties, I don’t think we need to worry too much about that. It’d be a quality investment at the most important position in football for the present and future.
— Can they still go BPA at #20 or will they be dictated by need?
As noted, the D-line needs, especially up front, feel like they might force Seattle’s hand. If they don’t take Carter at #5 they’d still need to address defensive tackle even with Anderson or Wilson safely in the hutch.
It’d be a shame if they had to force things because there are some really appealing names regularly mocked within range of #20:
Bijan Robinson (RB, Texas)
Undoubtedly one of the best five players in the draft, if not the most gifted. Robinson would take snaps away from Ken Walker but he’s also such an incredible player that Seattle would have one of the best 1-2 punches in league history.
Michael Mayer (TE, Notre Dame)
Notre Dame botched their own press release last week, copying and pasting Jarrett Patterson’s short shuttle time into the Mayer column. He actually ran an elite 4.31 shuttle and a 6.97 three-cone. These testing numbers mean Mayer has the physical profile associated with the best tight ends in recent history. Paired with his reliable catching ability, good blocking and total-football attitude — he is one of the best players in the class.
Devon Witherspoon (CB, Illinois)
Witherspoon is the best hitter in the draft. He absolutely levels opponents. He will help set the tone on defense for the team who drafts him. Furthermore, he’s a heck of a player. He can press, he can stick in coverage, he competes for the ball. He plays with a swagger typically associated with the best cornerbacks in the NFL. He hasn’t tested and that could mean he lasts on the board but whoever gets him will love him.
Josh Downs (WR, North Carolina)
An exceptional talent who is being overlooked by too many, I think Downs is a top-15 player and the best receiver in the draft. He’s a downfield threat, he’s excellent at uncovering on shorter-routes. He high-points the ball brilliantly and has explosive leaping ability. He’s incredibly mature and pro-ready, with NFL bloodlines from his father and uncle (Dre Bly). He reminds me of Tyler Lockett.
Dawand Jones (T, Ohio State)
There just aren’t many humans like Jones. With his insane size and length, he can overwhelm and overpower defenders. He’s incredibly difficult to move or get-around and he could end up quickly becoming one of the best right tackles in the league. His one day at the Senior Bowl was remarkable.
Jahmyr Gibbs (RB, Alabama)
There were moments in 2022 where Alabama struggled for rhythm and impact on offense. They’d turn to Gibbs and the problem was quickly solved. He runs in the 4.3’s, he’s an excellent receiver out of the backfield. He’d be a brilliant complement to Ken Walker.
For many reasons, it’s also very possible the Seahawks will have John Michael Schmitz on their target list in the #20-40 range too. That will be harder to justify if you are feeling pressured to go D-line early and often.
— There is one name to mention at linebacker who could be intriguing
The Seahawks might need to plan ahead at the position with Bobby Wagner, Devin Bush and Jordyn Brooks all out of contract next year. It was brought to my attention by Si Clancy that Pete Carroll got a very close look at Henry To’o’to’o at the Alabama pro-day:
— Simon Clancy (@SiClancy) March 24, 2023
Carroll was supposedly front-and-centre for the entire workout.
It’s something just to keep in the back of your mind.
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Going on record to say: In John I Trust. So if he passes on the 4th qb available and if Anderson is gone, what’s the best alternative move for Seattle to make?
Well everything says John would most likely be delighted to have Stroud, Richardson or Levis. So if one of them is there, he’ll draft him with a thanks. If all he has is Young, he might be worried about his size, so the right thing to do is to get him anyways and also take Dawand Jones at 20 and the meanest C at 37 so when you eventually start Young he is well protected.
In neither John nor Pete do I trust. There’s much evidence that they’ve never given a crap about “character” – other than lip service. Despite Rob’s perfectly valid observations, I wouldn’t be shocked if the Hawks grab Carter at #5.
If we were just talking about a guy with a rough family upbringing and the street racing/drinking decision making I could see them taking a shot. I think it has been mostly lip service from the team on domestic violence issues and troubles with the law in the past. I do think we’ve seen a huge shift in recent years to guys that are all in on football after they chased McDowell and a few others. The lack of effort, conditioning and motivation are going to keep the Seahawks away from Carter for me. I just don’t see a guy like Scot McCloughan basically saying he wouldn’t draft Carter (my interpretation) for the Seahawks to go get that guy.
I’d guess they go two DTs in their first 5 picks, and then bargain basement shop for two veteran guys on top of that for camp.
Is the Wagner signing partly to have a 1st ballot HoF player mentor Carter in respect of football character?
Let’s be honest, you couldn’t have a better mentor on how to be a pro.
I’m not saying for one minute that’s tjhe only reason. We have a need at LB and he fitted it.
Is Wagner going to shadow him when he goes to a strip club at 2am and then yank the keys out of his hand when they decide to go racing?
This kid doesn’t just need a mentor. He needs a full-time babysitter to keep him out of trouble.
I’ve been banging the War drums on the topic of trusting in John Schneider. I’m glad to see that a higher platform is in full support as well. In John I trust.
Defaulting to a position of total, implicit trust in John Schneider doesn’t make sense. He did play a significant role in the five-year lightning-in-a-bottle rise that delivered the city a championship, yes, but Schneider’s post-Malcolm Butler rosters have been thoroughly mediocre.
Some of this reversion to the mean has simply been the result of the league’s parity machine doing its work, but not all of it. The Hawks’ front office made innumerable mistakes from 2015 to present, both on the pro personnel side as well as in the draft, and Schneider has also played a significant role in that. Sitting here and cherrypicking the good decisions as John’s and the bad decisions as Pete’s is far too convenient, as narratives go.
. . .I’m also not going to credit Schneider for liking Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen so much that he didn’t bother to draft them. With prime Russell Wilson as a potential trade chip, and with a proven willingness to spend future draft resources on present prospects, a trade-up or trade-in for Mahomes or Allen from #26–27 would absolutely have been doable—and yet Schneider didn’t do it. Of course he didn’t do it! And that’s fine, because only with hindsight as 20/20 could one have seen the prudence in such an outwardly risky move. But let’s not then turn around and rewrite history, painting Schneider as having been willing to make that move, when eventuality clearly proves that he wasn’t willing. He WAS willing to draft Malik McDowell and Rashaad Penny, that much we all can see. But as for word getting out that a given personnel man just loved a particular draft prospect who has since gone on to establish himself as firmly on the Hall of Fame track, all I can say is: How conveeeeenient—never heard that one before. I imagine Schneider isn’t the only GM who “really liked” Mahomes and Allen.
I meant to say “The Hawks’ front office made innumerable mistakes from 2015 to 2021.” The results of 2022’s work have been undeniably fantastic.
How was JS supposed to draft them? They didn’t have a chance to.
And the reports on interest happened long before either became great so he wasn’t talking after the fact
“And the reports on interest happened long before either became great so he wasn’t talking after the fact.”
I hear thee, man. I get that.
. . .But I’m just making the point that, however much Schneider did like Mahomes, he evidently didn’t like him THAT much, because a move from #26 to the top ten would have been totally feasible given he had peak Russell Wilson as part of any such theoretical trade package. (I’m not criticizing him for not making the move; at the time, I would have seen such a gamble as shocking and irresponsible.)
My question: Just how high WAS Schneider willing to go to get Mahomes?
If he was willing to go up to #15 or so, I’ll buy Schneider’s exceptional Mahomes astuteness. But if he just meant to stand pat and take him at #26—should he fall that far—I’m selling.
P.S. And to bring it around to the 2023 draft, just how high is Schneider willing to go to get Richardson? [evil grin emoji]
“Is the Wagner signing partly to. . .mentor Carter”?
Bobby is capable of many things, but he is not capable of making another human being want something.
No 😂
I don’t feel the need to linger on this Ian
It’s like saying, what if they don’t like this reclamation former first round pick
We know they can’t resist
Fair enough, understood
I think adding to this is the total lack of premium positional players in the top-10
My answer to your question is Bijan and Myers but a RB or TE in the top-10?
I don’t understand how this is possible given we own the 5th pick.
Soooo much value at 20-60, including Hooker at QB. Would love to see the triple trade down to fish in that pond.
You already have three picks in that range
You don’t need to trade down three times to fish in that pond
MattGoBig – I spent some time this weekend looking at Hendon Hooker videos. I came away wondering if we would be talking about 5 prime QBs instead of 4 if it wasn’t for Hooker’s ACL injury last November. His skills are really impressive with something like 30 Tds and 3 interceptions last year and comparable stats in 2021.
If the Seahawks plan to Redshirt a drafted QB in 2023, why not Redshirt/Rehab Hooker? Sure, he’s too “old” at 25, but from my perspective (I’m an “old” geezer myself) he’s just old enough to have learned some lessons in life, but not so old to be bed-ridden yet. I haven’t heard how Hooker’s surgery went and how he is recovering, but I think some guys have come back in pretty good shape within 9 mos. to a year after surgery. So, I would think that he would be throwing again in practice in, say, September of this year.
I’ve read that Minnesota may be interested in Hooker, and maybe the Raiders. So, would he be there for the Seahawks at 20 and, if so, would JS/PC give him a phone call?
That Tennessee offense…
That’s the issue
Everything is wiiiiiiiide open
The number of tight throws Geno Smith is required to make in this offense should scare any Seahawks fan off of Hendon Hooker.
Just watch his highlights. He literally can afford to stare down his receiver and not even start his motion until the receiver has made his break.
If he can’t progress beyond that he will get eaten alive in the NFL.
And the age – he will be 27 before he gets NFL snaps. It is not a matter just of his physical body’s age, it is projection. Teams love 20 or 21 year old players who flash in college because they know without a doubt that the player will fill out physically and his game-mind is still developing. Around 25-28 a player is peaking. So it is extremely hard to count on a 27 year old to progress as a player enough to pay off a high selection, particularly when he plays in a gimmicky college offense that bears little resemblance to the pro game.
When I watch Hooker’s game tape, I see a better Malik Willis. That offense is awful for the pros. The WR’s are the ones making the reads and making route adjustments, it’s not on Hooker. So many times WR’s didn’t even run real routes on one side of the field because they knew they weren’t going to be targeted. I hadn’t noticed in a major conference before until Kurt Warner pointed it out in one of his video reviews.
His heat map last year is almost exactly like Malik Willis’. No thanks.
With due respect, Cha, do you have evidence that Hooker would not be able to make tight throws required by the Seahawks offense? “If he can’t progress beyond that he will get eaten alive in the NFL.”. Hooker was fortunate to play in an offense where he thrived, and you want to criticize him for not having to make tight throws?
And, you say that teams love 20 or 21 year old players because they know, ” without a doubt” that his “game- mind is still developing .” I would argue that if this was a certainty (and I have seen many examples to the contrary) then a 25 yr.old players mind is no doubt better developed than a 20 or 21 year-old cutting down his learning curve
and making him ready to play sooner rather than later.
I am hoping that Richardson is available at #5, but I am curious what your plans would be for a QB if all 4 of the big names are gone.
I’m not Cha but personally if the top four QB’s are gone in the top four I shrug, accept the fate, take Will Anderson and roll with what we have at QB.
I would rather draft other positions than take Hooker.
Players don’t rise up draft boards and make millions of dollars because ‘there’s no evidence proving they can’t do something so that must mean they can.’
Just asking if you could back up some of the assertions made in your post.
As I said, I’m hoping we get Richardson at #5, but if we miss out on a QB, I’m wondering what Plan B is?
Watch Georgia vs Tennessee bro. If Hooker was already able to complete tight window throws at an NFL-level, Tennessee wins that game. A Hooker pick means we’re hoping he develops that ability at 26-27.
If Hooker is ‘Plan B’, then the Hawks should wait for Michael Penix Jr next year.
Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet
#Tennessee QB Hendon Hooker, who tore his ACL in November, received positive medical reports here in Indy, sources say. He’s three months after the operation and on track to be ready for the season opener.
I really don’t understand what people see in Hooker.
Not saying he can’t play in the NFL, but from his college tape? He looks like a one read QB with accuracy issues who doesn’t have a cannon for an arm. And he’s not a dynamic open field player like Michael Vick or Lamar Jackson.
I just we wonder if John and Pete are aligned. It seems a little like Pete has told John he must have certain players.
Now John did say they are keeping an eye on other rosters to see who might be released. Any teams in cap trouble with players we might sign over a few of our own?
I would assume there will be plenty of post 6/1 releases coming as teams scramble to free cap space.
Hopefully there’s a certain safety on that list. But, I still don’t think Pete wants to let go of him just yet. Probably next year.
Absolutely fantastic piece! I know they don’t view this as a rebuild but my hope for the draft is that they act as if they will still need one more off season to truly make noise in the playoffs. Yes you have needs but just add talent. Even if that means you go QB, TE, OC with your first 3 picks (not my preference but I could get behind the thought process).
The dream is to treat as many picks as possible as bpa vs. Need. Little worried that we might seem them go need for two reasons:
1. There are some painfully thin roster spots.
2. If they fall back mentally into that mid to tail end russel thought that “just one more player,” will push us over the top this year they can easily get caught reaching.
Last year was fun. Great story. Very good draft.
But I hope they saw that bottom barrel defense and that sometimes stalling offense along with the 17 game schedule/ ridiculous seven seed and are honest that they were actually a .500 team with positives and negatives in equal measure.
I think the only way they don’t go QB at #5 is if they are utterly convinced Hooker is the right guy for the future at the position. Then it’ll end up being Wilson I’m sure. As many folks have said here (but not elsewhere, cuz you know JALEN CARTER!!) I feel John traded Russ with an eye towards the QB class this year and if necessary, a trade up to get one.
I’m hopeful Shelby is brought back leaving them able to draft a QB at #5 and still address the D-line at 20, 38, etc.
Or signing A’Shawn
No to Robinson, we don’t need anymore players only play 7-8 games a season.
I will be bummed if it’s Tyree Wilson.
I’m not a “in Pete and John I trust,” guy. Sorry to the faithful but you don’t get trust on the back of a single solitary good draft after pissing away free agency and nearly every single draft pick from 2017-2020.
On Wilson. I listen to a lot of stuff. Some straight stupid. Some thoughtful if I’m not quite there. I keep hearing the phrase blue chip, blue chip over and over….I’m pretty confident in making the bet that the retroactive bluechip defensive player in this draft is : the field vs. Wilson/Carter, either.
100% agree my friend. I do not want Wilson. I still have to believe they’ll go for the quarterback. And as far as trusting and Pete and John I could not agree with you more. One great draft only makes the trust tree grow to about three feet. It won’t hold my weight yet.
100% agree. They can’t come out of the Russ trade with a guy who won’t play until he’s 27 if he’s lucky and a big, bulky DE with boring tape. The signs point too strongly to it having to be a quarterback. They hedged against it, but all they did was assure that they have a starter and a backup. There is no real contention for a Super Bowl with Geno. He just isn’t at that level of talent.
Pete and John had a phenomenal last calendar year, really did some good PR reclamation to me. But there are still moves being made and not being made that are keeping me worried that things haven’t changed enough.
The long-term future of the team hinges with what they do at pick 5 as far as I am concerned.
Amen
However, I agree with Rob on Carter, he’s off the board.
Anderson or a QB at 5
MIKe, Peter and BK26, all great thoughts and comments!
The Seahawks really need a QBOTF at 5. Opportunities like this don’t come along often. I’m just not sure PCJs feel the same way.
“The long-term future of the team hinges with what they do at pick 5 as far as I am concerned.”
I totally agree BK
I doubt Hendon Hooker is going to have much bearing on whether or not they take a QB at 5. Drew Lock is 14 months older than Hooker and healthy. I could see them thinking Lock still has as much potential as Hooker.
Keep thinking back to last year’s draft and not taking an lb.
One negative within a positive draft was when Tindall and Chenal got snapped up during the third round supplemental selections right ahead of them, I wonder if they would have taken one of those guys over Coby Bryant at the start of day 3.
Rob,
If John is willing to entertain a diamond in the rough at #5 (in the form of Richardson), then maybe – MAYBE – he thinks the same way about Tyree Wilson? Taking those raw tools and harnessing them?
I really do not want Wilson. I’d rather one of the QBs we’ve all talked about. So this is not me trying to puff up Wilson as worthy of #5. I just hope that Pete and John are not over-projecting what this guy can be.
I don’t think Wilson is necessarily a diamond in the rough though
He might just be big
Rob – I think you are right on in your assessment of Wilson. When I look at his tape, he looks like he is a second slow on nearly every play — the ball gets snapped and he seems to hesitate before he decides what to do. Is this taking “read and react” too far, or is he just wired to react slowly? Just the opposite of when I watch Anderson whose first step seems lightning fast — often causing his opponent to immediately place his weight on his heels.
Anyway, thanks for providing years of entertainment.
Would there be any realistic trade market for Noah Fant? With so many high end options in the draft my guess would be a Day 3 pick at best.
I’m a little worried that the FA hasn’t been quite as good as we hope it has been.
They kind of need that money from Fant. But if they trade him in this class I think he’s maybe a 5th rounder.
The problem then is TE goes from BPA prospect to need. Along with still needing about three dlinemen.
Keep an eye out for a Colby Parkinson value extension this fall.
Cha first of all I’m not sure if I posted it on your article but excellent work.
Second: I’m not sure if this is supposed to be sarcasm. Parkinson + fall + value signing….sounds great until I see the numbers.
I’m serious. Something like a 3y $12m deal could prove to be a steal.
I get the feeling Colby Parkinson’s skill set hasn’t even approached being fully exploited. He’s got plenty more upside than, say, Nick Vannett, doesn’t he? He seems to have embraced the traditional dual-threat nature of the tight end position, at least in terms of attitude, despite his history as a modern-day finesse guy. With another couple years of increasing comfort within the system, he could offer very good value on a second contract (assuming other teams are less likely to covet him after a half-dozen or more legit 2023 TE prospects have filtered into the league).
More broadly, I’ve long felt that too many Hawk draftees have used up their first contracts just learning how to be pros and settling into their roles. By the time they’re up and running as solid, replacement-level-or-better contributors, off they go to some other city, where some other franchise gets to benefit from the Seahawks’ developmental investment. I hate that pattern.
Of course, extending a player whose trajectory ultimately reverses earthward would introduce its own set of risks, but Parkinson seems to have a little something.
They want their whole offense to run out of 2 TE sets. Fant is a former 1st round pick, who has produced every year in the league, and is going to pop off this next year!!
I think they’re more like to trade Nwosu.
Cross referencing Curtis’ salary cap post, apart from cutting Jamal Adams, the options for freeing up salary cap are cuts or contract rehash at WR/TE. My reading of comments here over recent weeks is that we would all prefer the rehash option, but if forced to lose a WR/TE and still needing numbers on the DL, a redshirt QB at no. 5 might be an unaffordable luxury – unless there was a totally irresistable option there. But if one of the pass catchers is destined to be a cap casualty (and at this point it is hard to not see Adams as more of a candidate than the WRs/TE) then surely the first three picks would have to cover a WR/TE and a couple of defensive players?
I think they’re gonna go QB at #5 who I think will be Richardson. They’ll go BPA for the second pick (wouldn’t be surprised if they do the Schneider special and trade down at #20 and up from #83 or #123) which I’d guess will be somewhere on the D-line unless a significant value pick is there. Then Pete will gush about how great said D-lineman is in the draft press conference and how they considered drafting them earlier or they received a call from another team saying how much they wanted to draft him. Then they won’t play the rookie next season but rather the cheap, veteran D Lineman they’ll pick up from the recycle bin sometime between now and the start of the season.
This started strong but as I kept reading it was funny and sad at the same time.
I think JMS at 20 ( not my choice) is the move.
The opportunity to get a top flight QB cannot be ignored by any team, more so by a team that never drafts this early. Not to mention that the Hawks have an aging starter with only one good season under his belt!
It is crazy that all hawk fans aren’t onboard the QB at 5 logic. There are no guarantees in the NFL draft and this is likely the least risky option for many reasons Rob has stated.
Where is To’o’to’o projected to go in this draft? I’m not sure that’s a good spot for us if it’s where I think it is.
If they draft him, the Wizard of Oz jokes that I am already coming up with…
Those are tough decisions from #20 down when you know that the Seahawks need a solid meal of defensive linemen but your tempted by the candy of another wide receiver, tight end or tackle.
Watch us draft Ade Adu, Ulu Ulu, and Toto.
Lol!
Are there any Nose tackles left in free agency that may be a better get than Al Woods coming back on smaller deal? Calais Campbell signed yet?
A’Shawn Robinson, NT
I don’t think Campbell is a NT. He’d be depth at DE.
I’m confused why Will Levis is dropping further than Jalen Carter in recent mock drafts. What has changed in the last few weeks to send him from the top 5 to into the teens and twenties? Is this based on anything or is it simply the trendy thing to do?
Trendy, IMO
Rob, do u see any good justification for passing on Richardson or Levis, if they are on the board? I just can’t see a good justification for passing on a QBoTF for a non elite DL prospect in Anderson or Tyree Wilson
You can make an argument for Anderson
Otherwise no
You could make an argument for Anderson, but IMO, it wouldn’t be a very compelling one as there’s other DL talent to be found later in the 1st and 2nd rounds to addresss those needs. Whereas with the QBs this is not the case unless you’re taking Hendon Hooker with your 2nd pick in the 2nd round.
Maybe he ate nine pounds of unpeeled bananas?
People seem to REALLY hate the idea of mayo in coffee.
BTW, he said in an interview on NFLN at his pro day that he doesn’t actually do that. He was just messing with people.
I meant Jalen Carter, who gained nine pounds.
I thought you meant Bryce Young … who gained 9 lbs 😉
It’s based on mock draft “experts” picking the team they want him to fall to.
I watched 3 Illinois games this weekend to check out Chase and Sydney Brown who would both look great in a Hawks uniform. But my goodness is Devon Witherspoon ever a fun watch.
I know the Hawks never take a CB early but if he was there at 20 because of his testing numbers that would be a culture changing pick that I think can easily be justified. I don’t remember any secondary player in the last decade playing with that intensity and physicality. Adding him to the secondary would immediately make that group elite.
DL almost has to be the pick at 20 because they are so bare there but it is too bad because a guy like Witherspoon could have a bigger impact long term.
I agree- I know the Seahawks won’t pick a cornerback in the first round but someday it would be nice to upgrade the secondary with one or two first round cornerbacks. I can only dream of that day.
I know you’ve not really wanted to get drawn into the possibility of the Seahawks trading down, because of the opportunity they have to get one of the top 4 QBs or Anderson seems like an obvious fit, but I wonder if we need to consider it. From everything I’ve seen and heard (certainly from your content), it pretty rare that a team, and GM specifically will go into a draft with 4 different QBs they are comfortable taking early, and generally have 1 or 2 of ‘their guys’. I know the top talent is rare, but will JS & PC really like them all?
If the top 4 is three QBs and Anderson, and the guy left (hypothetically Bryce Young and they’re worried about his weight or something) they just don’t like, there just isn’t an obvious difference on the next 10 picks or so for the Seahawks, doesn’t a trade down with a team that does like the remaining QB make sense? Still Raiders, Falcons, Titans Commanders and others could be options giving them flexibility on how far down they want to move.
Personally would love to see a QB pick at 5, and I like them all, but Tyree Wilson or forcing another player into this spot would feel like worst case scenario for the Hawks
The thing for me is what player at five would the teams from say 7-13 move up for? Is someone flying up to five for Paris Johnson, Gonzalez, Anderson? Maybe.
Then what does Seattle do at say 12? I hate value arguments in drafts but is Macdonald, Kancey, other (?) Solid value at that spot?
I don’t disagree overall with moving back. I just stare at the mock drafts and never see the player teams would be burning up the phone lines for.
In this scenario team would be trading up for the last quarterback. Presumably Anderson and three QBs are gone, and the last QB is one that Pete/John doesn’t like. Other quarterback desperate teams might float a great offer to get him.
I don’t know what QB’s Pete/John like, maybe they like them all and take the last guy, but it is possible there’s one or two they don’t, and with Anderson off the board, they try and trade down.
I’m not projecting the QB’s to be liked by Seattle just because they are QB’s though. I make that projection because all four, to a man, fit what they’ve looked for in the past. They are basically factory built for JS
I hope you’re right Rob
I think it’s completely fair to look at each individually and see that what JS would like about them, and predict to a fairly high confidence JS would be willing to take them at 5. The problem is doing that 4 times and projecting he’s willing to hedge his job on any of the 4 becomes a bigger ask.
One of these guys has to be 4th on the list, and I do wonder if there’s a mental barrier to only getting your 4th favourite option at that position with the 5th pick.
Ultimately if JS doesn’t like one of these guys (and he’s probably earn’t some trust in his evaluation) and the draft falls that way, I just hope they make a sensible call and don’t reach on a position because they haven’t filled it correctly
Think of it this way, in any given year all 4 of them COULD be the No. 1 or top 3 pick. You likely aren’t sniffing that again for a long time unless things Really fall apart. You could make a case for each of these 4 being first overall. Levis is the only one I haven’t seen at #1 and would be thrilled to have him too.
I don’t see us drafting Wilson at 5. It means passing on one of the 4 QB’s or Anderson for him and that is hard to fathom. Mazi Smith is the one that’s hard to guarantee at 37 (Damn Rams keep picking him right in front of us) May want to use some capital to get him while he’s on the board (so many EDGE rushers in this draft to scoop up in second round range). May lose JMS to Cards at 34 but Wypler has been lasting to end of 2nd round in many mocks. Too many TE needy teams in the teens for Mayer to squeak through and Robinson could land in Philly but unlikely to get to 20 but fun to think about. Downs and Jones are very intriguing at 20 if they are there but would love to trade back with one of the mid 20’s teams (Jags thru Bengals) to pick up their second round pick to get one of the several EDGE rushers you’ve highlighted.
Bottom line can’t wait for this draft it may fall to us like last year (Abe Lucas etc.) and we could be walking out with 4 or 5 picks in the first two rounds (including QBOTF Richardson or Levis) that make you pump your fist in the air.
Best you can hope for is a 3rd in that sort of trade, but gives a pick for maybe an RB or Safety while pounding trenches with native picks, at least in my Robomocks.
Hoping that the better teams in the group have a must have player targeted and are willing to overpay a bit for the player but you’re probably more accurate with a 3rd but I can dare to dream…
You can’t run a really successful 3-4 unless you have a fire hydrant at NT. I’d like VInce Wolfork, please. Time to hit on an interior DL. When was the last time we did that? Mebane and he was a 3 tech? Benton looks athletic with up the field agility but how is he vs the run? Ika has a prototype body style and could take on blockers at the point of attack to allow the LB’s to roam. That is what we need. Wags was so successful last year because he didnt have guards crushing him. We NEED a NT! Not a prototypical up the field pass rushing 3 tech.
I’d also like to grab Henley to play any of the LB positions. Quick, a hitter and perfect to go sideline to sideline with a NT mandling the front.
We have flexibility because of the 2 Bronco selections, so we don’t want to reach but we need a NT and another LB BADLY. That is why our Defense sucks and we can’t stop the run. It’s pretty obvious.
A center would be nice and I’ll take the Wisconsin product, Wypler in the 3rd round.
It’s nice to have the extra selections but it’s time to draft a NT that can take on double teams and is a space eater. Is that Mazi Smith? Benton has potential but likes to 1 gap up the field.
We’ll see. Thanks, Rob
Based on what I saw at the Senior Bowl practices, I think Benton is a DE in our scheme.
Cha, thanks for the salary cap right up . I have a question for anyone with cap knowledge. If Adams can’t pass a physical, what are the cap ramifications? Does an injury settlement that affects the cap?
Also, because of the current cap situation, you might see a few UDFA have a shot at making the roster at DL. Rob, are there any guys outside of your big board that have potential to be the next Poona Ford?
No change, really. There is a provision for players to collect a Veteran Injury Benefit up to $2m, but Adams has $2.56m salary guaranteed this year so he’s covered that way.
Pete and JS knows the importance of #5 pick and we need QB of future. We don’t need someone to start right away. If not QB at #5 how many players can be justify high pick? Anderson and that’s it.
Many SDB fans including me are worried what if young QB is at #5? Overall young is considered #1 or #2 at the worst which is great if it happens.
Question what if Texans take Anderson? What will Arizona do? Trade or Wilson?
That’s kind of been my dream. Houston takes Anderson and Arizona takes Wilson. Then Seattle will have a choice of the 2 remaining qbs. A guy can dream.
Just spitballing here but could the Texans take Will Anderson @2 then trade up from 12 for a QB?
BTW a move from 12 to five is 500 points on the trade chart the 33 pick is 580. Like Rob said about Schneider I’m in the “I trust JS on QB’s” camp if they take a QB of the future great if they don’t like the one left and want to fill holes with 12,20,33,37 & 52 I could get behind that plan also.
This is my favorite sort of scenario. Like my personal fav early this year of the Bears trading down to 4 to take a QB AND trading away Justin Fields. The fun scenarios that would get any GM fired for recklessness but sure is fun.
That’d be a fascinatingly fun way to screw over Arizona. Yes AZ could trade down from 3, but there’d still be three QBs on the board, so it’d hardly be a must have pick assuming Sea or Oak was willing to take lesser offers. And the Hawks could just take a QB anyways (which is why Hou wouldn’t do it without a handshake deal with Seattle).
I could do without Will Anderson chasing around Geno. If Bryce Young falls to the Hawks, at least there’d be some intrigue with Young vs Anderson storylines.
Back to your idea- it’d be a coup for Houston if they pulled it off.
Excellent thoughts.
I think I’d be pretty happy at 5 with any of Stroud, Young, Richardson or Anderson. Just need one pick in the top 4 to go our way.
Another thought-provoking article – thanks Rob! AR pro day should be very interesting. Heard Pete Carroll in an interview this morning talk about the QB’s – saying there are 4 great QB options and everybody including Geno Smith, Lock, and the rest of the team know we are looking hard at these guys. You don’t pick this high very often and it would be derelict not to be all in on the QB evaluation process in this year’s draft.
That’s just Pete getting my hopes up before the head fake 😂
Although he does telegraph his moves often enough.
Haven’t you heard? That’s just Pete and John playing 4D chess. It’s a smokescreen to get other teams to trade up for a QB. The stuff some people think…
Saw a mock today in which AZ traded down twice, first with Colts, then with Raiders, resulting in 4 QBs gone and we get Anderson. AZ then selects Tyree Wilson. Amonst the many possibilities,I believe this scenario has a reasonable chance of taking place, especially if AZ feels Wilson is a better scheme fit than Anderson. No one has to pay a King’s ransom to trade up and all parties get their man. While we fail to secure our ideal QBOTF in the first round, it sets us up very well to draft BPA going forward and perhaps take a flyer on a QB in later rounds.
To this point, I noticed Jim Nagy was effusive with his praise for Max Duggan, saying:
“I think Max Duggan is gonna be one of those guys that if he goes in the third or the fourth (round), he could be a guy three years from now kind of like (star Philadelphia Eagles quarterback) Jalen Hurts – who was in our game three years ago – where you’re thinking, ‘Man, how did Duggan get that far?’” Nagy said. “Max plays the position. He plays the position better than some of the guys being talked about in the first round … He feels it better, he sees it better, he anticipates better. He’s just a better quarterback than some of the guys we’re talking about up high.”
Is he a possibility for the Seahawks in the later rounds? He didn’t impress with his throwing at the combine.
Not physically impressive enough IMO
I wouldn’t draft him
AZ trading down twice would be a nightmare scenario.
I think it’s 50/50 to happen I would certainly entertain it if I were them (as stated if Wilson is their target would he get by Det at 6 since we would probably take Anderson) and do they have another player (Gonzalez?) rated high enough to feel comfortable trading down and missing on Anderson and Wilson. With Chi trading we really have extremely limited trading up options (hard to see any of the 3 qb needy teams moving) Our best option would be a Lamar to IND/HOU but unlikely. AZ will determine whether it’s Anderson or a QB for us…
I really think we should have paid the price and moved up to 1 and secured our QBoTF.
💯
To me it’s no different than just the 1 trade with Vegas moving from #7 to #3. That situation has been brought up multiple times.
Then we end up with Anderson hard to see that as a bad thing.
It’s a bad thing IMO because missing out on a QBoTF is much worse long term than just getting merely a “good” DL. Anderson doesn’t move the needle much for the team, whereas a potential Franchise QB has much more impact on the team.
Is there anyone here that wants a QB at 5 worse than Wilson lol…
After all the posts lobbying for one, I for one, hope you get your guy at 5 Wilson! 🙂
Just read the comments, there’s several that want a QB just as much as I do.
I beat you to it on a superchat asking about a trade up to #2…😀.
I don’t bring it up as much because I’ve resigned myself to all of them being gone. For various reasons.
But….qbotf at five is the pick for me. If you’re gambling at any pick then that’s the gamble.
I like Anderson but I’ve certain as I can be that there will be another player around near enough as good as him somewhere in the draft.
I’m very off the “hendon hooker needs to learn a whole new offense,” train.
And I’m legitimately not into a player that I get yelled at in comments “turn on the tape!!!!” And I say….what tape? He’s literally not on the field.
While I agree most of us would love a QB, I’m not going to be to disappointed with Anderson.
Now if Anderson is gone & we don’t take a QB, that’s an entirely different story.
This is where I’m at
I still don’t see how u don’t take a QB if Richardson or Levis are there on the board. Even if AZ decides to take Tyree Wilson instead of Anderson (unlikely, but still a possibility). It just seems like there’s options in the 20-60 range that would fill the need fine, whereas with the QBs, it’s Hooker and that’s it.
Hard pass for me on Duggan. I watched him at the Combine live and he seemed to struggle BIG TIME. UDFA grade on him from me.
He didn’t look good at the Senior Bowl either.
Yeah, I thought so, too. That’s why I wondered ay Nagy’s comment…he’susually pretty spot on.
I’m not huge fan of Duggan but the dude is a gamer. He’s not the type of guy that’s gonna shine at the combine. I kinda get the poor man’s Hurts comp.
Hurts had physical traits though that Duggan simply doesn’t possess. His arm is terribly weak
And that’s the problem. Duggan IS a gamer and has a ton of grit. Perfect QB in the college game and it showed this past year. In the NFL, you need to combine that grit with god-given talent and then you are a QB1. Max is the next Colt McCoy. Excellent QB but just lacking enough to not be a bonafide QB1. I love Max and would love to have him as a QB2, but not QB1.
Thing is we primarily need a NT, right? That is a massive hole right now, but obviously there is no NT worth taking with pick #5 nor or maybe ever, so that would be a later pick. We do still need another DL to spell Dre and Jarran, but I could see how someone like Ade Ade, who’s such a unique special physical talent, would be far more appealing at #20 than Wilson at #5 (possibly even Anderson). Also, since we have our two starters, it end up just being JAG on a vet min contract.
Regarding NTs, I recall the years when you never would see players from Hawaii or the other Polynesian Islands playing football. My mind wanders to visions of a 400# Japanese Sumo wrestler playing NT as an UDFA. Got to think out of the box ….
As an aside, didn’t Wilt Chamberlain work out as a TE for some NFL team?
Rob, I can tell you why many don’t trust JS to pick a QB. And this coming from someone who insists it’s madness NOT to get one of the top 4 qbs this year. It’s not that I don’t want Seattle to take a QB, it’s that I’m not enamored of JSs talent eval at QB.
Darrel Bevell was the impetus for Wilson, and it took him AGES to convince JS, and even longer to win Carrol over. They brought in:
TJack
Clipboard Jesus
Matt Flynn
Wilson
Austin Davis
Mr Magough
And now Smith and Locke
JS oversaw 9 poor drafts and a couple great ones. He had maybe two great trades (Lynch, Clemons) but three epically terrible ones (Harvin, Graham, Adams) before dumping Wilson. They got lucky in 2013 free agency landing Avril and Bennet for peanuts, then spent the next decade botching free agency by pinching pennies and low balling great players in the hope they’d sign in Seattle for less. They even talked about that tactic as it kept failing.
They had a fine draft last year, let’s hope they keep it rolling. But why on earth would anyone trust that if they like a guy it’s golden? Their track record doesn’t support such faith.
And since they didn’t trade up, they are at the mercy of Arizona as to whether they get Anderson or a QB.
Please tell me they aren’t going to bomb the fifth pick on a defender and overdraft Hooker…
I think it’s pretty well established that JS loved Wilson and was the key mover and shaker behind that pick
Maybe you missed it, but I read an interview where either Caroll or JS (I can’t remember now, it’s been a few years) talked extensively about Bevell and Wilson. They said Bevell was the one who scouted Wilson and advocated for him, and it took awhile before JS was on board, and then they kept at Carrol until he was onboard as well.
They went out of their way in that interview to give Bevell credit. Really wish I could remember where I read it, too. I’m 90% certain it was Carrol speaking, 10% that it was John.
Damn my middle aged memory!
By the time the draft rolled around, all were on board and they said one of them had to restrain the other from just nabbing Wilson a round or two earlier.
I’m going to need to see this interview
Because everything I’ve seen, read and heard has John Schneider as the main motivator behind the Wilson decision
Everything I’ve read was Schneider as advocate as well.
Not to forget Schneider has multiple times been ok to move on from Wilson.
Like Rob wrote in the article about Mahomes & Allen.
Then we also have the trade Schneider had arranged with the Raiders which Pete vetoed. Three 1sts a 3rd, & 2 players.
Then the Jody Allen meeting that changed everything. Pete’s running it all back no longer a reality.
Coaches gone as well as Wilson. Hoping Schneider has full authority on Draft now.
Why?
What good coach/gm combo isn’t working together?
We’ve got to put to rest this idea that 12 drafts good and bad were Pete or worse McLoughlin on an island, and one good draft was John.
I think it’s way more realistic that one of the longest tenured duos see eye to eye on stuff and stuff.
Don’t trade Wilson. For right and wrong? Pete. Don’t draft Andy Dalton….also pete. Trade for JA? Probably Pete. Write expensive contracts for JA, Diggs, and Wagner….I guess Pete does the contracts as well.
What coach is so good that they just say “I’ll be off in Hawaii call me after the draft and just get whomever?”
Peter, thank you for this post. I feel the same way. It is a Collaboration between the GM and the HC. They don’t each live in a vacuum.
I wasn’t saying JS didn’t advocate for Wilson, just that Bevell was the first, and he pushed till JS saw his potential too. JS and Bevell then brought Carrol aboard the Wilson Bus.
I’ve read that multiple times over the years.
Y’all making me doubt my own sanity lol!
I have never read or heard of this
https://youtu.be/u7Zs8v3EIcQ
The story of Schneider drafting Wilson.
Where he says he had the same grade on Wilson as he had on Andrew Luck
It sure appears that Schneider was, not Bevell.
https://archive.jsonline.com/sports/seahawks-pick-of-russell-wilson-proves-wise-b99195615z1-243144661.html/
I think any credit Pete gave to Bevell for Russ was in helping him develop and creating a scheme/gameplan that catered to his strengths.
From Wiki
Looking to upgrade from quarterback Tarvaris Jackson, Bevell scouted Wisconsin senior Russell Wilson. He was one of only a few scouts to attend Wilson’s pro-day, and the Seahawks ultimately drafted him in the third round. Upon selecting Wilson, coach Pete Carroll stated, “It was Bevell’s project.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darrell_Bevell
I don’t know how or why we’ve got onto people trying to claim Schneider had nothing to do with the Wilson pick and it was ‘all Bevell’.
This is bizarre.
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/27/pete-carroll-praises-john-schneider-for-drafting-russell-wilson/
I feel like I’m reading a breakdown of the zapruder film. For the non us citizens this is the footage of JFK being assassinated. Satirically reimagied in a Seinfeld episode.
It feels like maybe both guys. You got John on one hand with ties to Wisconsin. And on the other hand you have Bevell a Wisconsin Alum. Probably safe to say it was John’s doing but Bevell would have probably been watching a qb at his Alma mater.
I can’t believe we’re still discussing this TBH
They had a long video about this and JS was the one that scouted Wilson and wanted to draft him in the second. I think Scott Fitterer even made the joke that they wouldn’t draft a CB under 6 feet, why would they want to draft a QB under that height.
Yeah cosign this. These guys get roses for hitting one draft in a decade, no wonder they never want to leave. Oh by the way we ran ourselves out of cap room, we’ll have to scrounge some pennies by excavating the smoking crater of the worst Seattle trade since Heathcliff Slocumb. Trust us, everyone.
Have said this before but while I acknowledge that Schneider’s interest in Mahomes and Allen was real and reported at the time, so it’s not strictly a case of hindsight bias … he also did not actually make those moves, so how much credit are we really awarding here? If he’s a traits-oriented QB savant, why was he not in on opportunities to inexpensively draft prospects like Dak Prescott and Jalen Hurts … or heck, Brock Purdy?
Here’s one. If he is in the traits business where was Seattle in drafting the one and only Drew Lock?
We don’t really know what they have in Brock Purday outside of a small sample of 5 games. Nick Foles was seen as the future when he threw 27 TD’s and 2 Int’s one year…and outside of doing a good job replacing Wentz to help win the Eagles a Super Bowl, hasn’t really done much of note.
Purdy was also literally passed by all 32 teams in the draft multiple times, including the 7th round.
Well how was he supposed to make those moves? Mahomes went tenth overall and didn’t come close to Seattle’s pick. The Browns refused to trade the #1 pick.
The Chiefs were one pick behind the Hawks in the Mahomes draft — Pat didn’t come close to them, either.
Come on. The Chiefs were actively in the market for a young QB and had been working for years to find the right guy. The Seahawks had 28-year-old peak Russell Wilson. They weren’t trading up to #10 during the draft but it would’ve been different had Mahomes lasted. The two teams were in very different places. Don’t try too hard here.
Curtis discussed a Noah Fant move as means to create cap, which they desperately need. Given that Pete Carroll also emphasized the strength of the TE class I think that a swap of TEs is entirely possible.
Do you think that they value the TEs strongly enough that they take one at #20 (Mayer, Kincaid) or rather in R2 (La Porta, Kraft) and prioritize Defense with #20?
If Seattle takes a TE it will be a Michael Mayer or Darnell Washington because they have the blocking skills that Kincaid doesn’t have.
Pete just said at an NFL coaches press conference that there are FOUR top QBs available. Which I guess is reflected in their ongoing tour to the respective colleges of these QBs. So unless that is really smoke I believe that means that they are all, not just one or two or three of them, on the Hawks’ list as potential #5 picks…
That would be a relieving. My biggest fear now is the let down of drafting Wilson at 5…
I recently saw many comments on a Frank R. article (the seahawks media guy) where many, many believe that the Seahawks shouldn’t draft a QB this year. The top 10 prevailing thoughts were that:
1. They resigned Lock for 4 million because he’s the “real” QBOTF. They wouldn’t do that unless he was a QBOTF.
2. The Seahawks cannot carry 3 QB’s on their roster, it’s a waste of a draft pick.
3. They can always draft one of the 2 notable QB’s next year. easy-peasy.
4. Smith is the real deal and is a great QB, we don’t need any more QB’s in this draft.
5. The Seahawks biggest needs are on DL & OL & WR, not at QB.
6. Most QB’s picked in the top 10 at QB are failures or maybe B/U’s at best.
7. Many believe they should trade down from #5, and maybe even from #20. More picks = more bites at the apple.
8. The Seahawks can win the Super Bowl with Smith, who is better than RW.
9. Many want a DL pick or three, without suggesting WHO?
10. Support for Carter is a mixed bag, but many say he’s so great and a disrupter. + He’s a kid, give him a break.
—-One additional note, Frank R. apparently wouldn’t take Levis at #5, because he’s way too erratic and not a good QB. and many posters agreed. (Total BS, IMO, because Levis is my #1 QB, even over Richardson).
Such is the state of the Seahawks fan base. *** SDB is the only place to find reasonable discussions of the pros and cons of players at ALL positions with fact-based conclusions and objective study of a player’s skill & potentials. Rob’s tape study is likely superior to any other analyst type, and we all know that the tape doesn’t lie. Bravo to Rob for committing so many hours in the player evaluations (that most analysts – don’t).
We are truly fortunate to have Rob and his excellent analysis of both players and logical team goals. SDB is the only place anyone needs to go to gain knowledge of both players and the NFL draft. ——->THANKS A BUNCH ROB.
Every time I hear someone on Seahawks Youtube give a reason why we cannot draft a QB this year they get halfway through their thought and then just kind of trail off. Its like people are just being willfully blind to the possibility and hostile to the suggestion. I dont get it. Any other fanbase would be hyped to select from one of 4 premium QBs when theres a team need and yet the Seahawks fanbase wont even hear of it. Are they scared of the risk? I dunno, its frustrating but also strangely fascinating.
I think it’s the whole getting burned on Dan McGwire and Rick Mirer thing back in the 90s. Which is a weird reason to not try, but it is what it is. Two of the three best QBs in the franchise were not drafted by the team (Zorn and Hasselbeck) and the third was drafted in the third, so I think there’s a bias in there that we don’t NEED to use a high first rounder on a QB. It’s more than a little ridiculous.
It was frustrating to have a discussion where someone ended up saying that out of Hooker, Richardson, and Willis, they would want Willis out of the three.
I didn’t even bother responding.
There are more Seahawks fans comfortable with trading the house for Lamar Jackson than drafting a QB at 5.
Think about that.
Seems most of the fanbase are clueless smooth brain morons unfortunately and are easily convinced by bad arguments and fallacious thinking. Has it always been this way and the RW trade just has shined a light on it now?
Fortunately there is zero chance of this since we spent all that money on the safety and tight end positions
Well…trading multiple firsts and then overpaying on a massive contract for a traveling circus of a player that keeps getting hurt WOULD be in line with recent history.
This is EXACTLY why I don’t bother even going elsewhere. Rob is not always correct, but no one is and he hits far more than misses e.g. Abe Lucas, KW III.
Same here, I don’t even bother with other Seahawk related content creators or media anymore. It’s all the same smooth brain dumpster fire garbage.
What I struggle with is this info is all free here.
Don’t like Rob’s takes? Fine.
But infinitely repeating concepts as if saying them enough makes it true is honestly more painful than the bad draft selections. Examples:
I consistently see Kancey’s name. We all love Kancey. But if he’s drafted he’s the first of his size for this era. Period. And there’s never, ever mention why Seattle might not take him.
Corner in the first round. See above.
Saw an earnest debate about Dawaan Jones. And how Abe can’t run block because, you guessed it….an air raid scheme that was wildly, roundly, and succinctly debunked with 1. Leach not even being there. 2. The cougs running a nearly balanced offensive attack.
Again I’m here for the difference in ideas though there’s been a ton of me skipping other sites this year.
Carter at NT. That might be my favorite one. Brutal.
Appreciate all the kind words here guys
You literally changed my paradigm of fandom.
And you also kept me being a fan for a few years there when I literally followed the game via box score or the radio. If it hadn’t been for this site I might have just completely checked out on the seahawks and how other places cover the team.
Thanks, I appreciate you saying that. Especially today, I needed some positivity.
Hope things get better.
There are a lot of people, myself included, that really appreciate all the hard work you put into SDB. You do a great job and I find it more fun being a Seahawks fan because of you.
Totally agreed, I love this site as it makes me a better fan and really deepens my enjoyment of the season being able to just know the players a bit better and to feel more invested in the process.
FWIW, Albert Breer just said on Cowherd that Young is currently 1a for Carolina and Stroud is 1b.
Suspect Houston has them 2a and 2b as well
I am curious why everyone assumes Texans go QB, I keep trying to find an article that shows Tepper/Irsay surety.
If Carter is truly elite and his character flags check out, this seems like the most likely landing spot. Also Ryans just came from Purdy-land, and Texans have 2 round 1 next year, could still trade up for QB1 in 2024.
That ain’t happening I’m afraid
They could surprise and take Anderson, though. Far less likely than QB, but it’s possible.
Agreed. The two biggest major x-factor disruptor moves imo are Carolina choosing Richardson over Stroud and Houston going Anderson over QB.
Not saying either will happen, just that either is possible and either (or both) could radically alter how the top 5 picks go
The Colts and Texans have also lined up predraft visits with Hendon Hooker to check in on his recovery. While it’s certainly far more likely they take one of the top 4, they’re still exploring the option of drafting someone else and then taking Hooker later.
The Colts have picks 35 and 79.
The Texans have 12, 33, 65, 73. If Hooker is progressing well, Texans could take the best defensive player in the draft (Anderson), then Hooker later. They won’t be great next year anyway and that gives Hooker time to fully heal.
This is the first draft process where I have any incentive to look at other teams message boards (only 4, plus potential trade ups).
Texans fans and media seem to be lukewarm on QB, prefer to go D or trade back to accumulate more picks.
A popular scenario for Texans fans is one where a team trades up with the Cardinals (say Colts), and then the Seahawks trade into pick #2 on draft day. Then trade down again from 5 to 7…kicking off a D heavy draft that usually involves either Hooker, Hall, or Bennet as a flier, then assumes trading up for QB in 2024 if necessary.
I’ve not read their nessafe boards but have looked at their roster. While everyone can use a great qb…..I’ve long thought Houston is out on qb at #2. I know fortubes change in a dime in the nfl but I don’t see them and a qb being much different next year unless all the other picks hit. My early guess is even with a great draft they might still be drafting top ten next year.
I’ve never suggested they wouldn’t take Anderson
Credit where credit is due.
I think Rob is the only analyst I’ve ever seen not be lazy when it comes to the Texans at #2. There was definitely an earlier post suggesting they take Anderson or Carter?
I really should pony up for patreon…. Rob is my first stop for draft coverage, even though I don’t always agree
Didn’t have to look far: https://seahawksdraftblog.com/new-two-round-mock-draft-post-combine-edition
Definitely agree about the possibility of the Texans taking Anderson, Defensive HC after all, team will likely suck enough to think they’ll have a shot at one of the top 2 next year or as mentioned above could go Hooker later. I only put the chance at like 25% but…………
I can easily see that changing
If it hasn’t already
My biggest fear is Arizona trades down to a QB needy team and the 4 QBs go 1 thru 4. And we are stuck with Anderson. Good player but not “field tilting”. Also believe they need to double dip at NT. Wherever the value is, just get 2 big boys to clog up things.
I think he can be field tilting
He’s just not a Bosa or Garrett
Rob,
I just don’t see the special player who you see in Michael Mayer. To me, he’s a complete TE (well rounded), but a “good” rather than “great” player. He appears to love the game and have have a high football IQ. But, he looks a little lumbering in his stride and I’m worried he won’t be able to separate as well at the next level. He also has short arms. Good around the line, but more solid than spectacular.
I can’t see the Hawks taking him at 20 and actually prefer Darnell Washington. He’s 6’7”, has hands that are nearly 3” longer than Mayer, and could be special. I think he’ll be a better pro than college player. Jst my thoughts.
Washington will be a top 3 blocking TE in the league from Day 1. Love Mayer but have to admit the idea of Washington in the Hawks offense is pretty intriguing.
Is anyone else suspicious that we’re going to lose out on AR at #5 when Indy trades #4 and their 2024 1st for Lamar? Baltimore replacing Lamar with AR seems incredibly on brand.
Then we get Will Levis so, win win. We just need Arizona to stay put.
A lot of mock drafts have the Colts taking AR anyway.
Why wouldn’t the Colts just draft AR and save the draft picks, $200 mil + and injury concerns?
…because Lamar is a finished product that won’t require a year or two of learning and perfecting the position?
I’ve no doubt Indy would want a young guy after many years of veteran retreads. That said, if the team believes they’re a great QB away from contending, they may not want to grab Levis or Richardson, who are viewed as incomplete products.
Not saying it’s likely but I can’t dismiss it as a possibility.
Guess you can’t rule anything out. I guess I just don’t think the Colts roster is that good.
Agreed. Denver has a better roster and look how they’re qb acquisition went. Indy would be far better off drafting a young guy and developing a stronger team around him. I’d rather see Levis in Seattle I think because he’s a safer pick but I think Indy will see him as a compromise to AR. Able to start sooner while still having some of the AR15 upside.
I have pretty strong doubts that Lamar could fetch the #4 overall pick for those reasons. Inconsistent play, tons of injuries, an open desire to land a huge fully guaranteed contract, the perception of attitude issues, and the lingering concerns from other teams that they’ll end up like the Broncos after the RW trade. I get that they might view him differently if they think QB is the missing piece, but I certainly wouldn’t trade that pick for him.
I have strong doubts anyone will fully guarantee his salary, too. I’m starting to get the feeling Lamar won’t be playing ball for anyone in 2023
Because you see more #8 Louisville jerseys in Indiana/Kentucky/Ohio outside of any others (Burrow included). Jackson in a Colts uniform would have immeasurable value to the Colts.
Do they have to sign Jackson pre-Draft? The move could be to sign him after day 1.
Chris Ballard aint doing that
As we don’t have a guaranteed shot at our QB1 – Mayer is the only first round prospect that has me pounding the table, don’t really see him lasting to #20.
The top prospects beyond Anderson all seem to be substantially the same for front 7 D, some combination of talent with imperfections.
If we started RD #4 with QBotF, Mayer and…
One or more of: (Ade, KWhite, Young (Ala), Ojomo)
One or more of: (Pickens, Benton, Young, Kancey, Mazi)
One of: (McDonald or Derrick Hall).
Wouldn’t that be a complete success, with great talent remaining rounds 4-7?
Rob, apologies if you’ve already talked about him, but what are your thoughts on Jerrod Clark? I remember his name from a video I believe you posted or was shared in the comments here, with Jim Nagy and Tony Pauline talking about players to watch at the senior bowl. Great size at 6-4 334 and 34″ arms, decent but not elite athleticism, played 0/1-tech, scouting reports say he is a stout run defender but doesn’t offer much in terms of pass rush, still managed 10 TFL and 3.5 sacks but that was in the Sun Belt. Definitely a true nose. You have him graded in the 4th round. Not that I would want to go into the season with him starting at NT, but do you think he could be a day 3 target for us if we don’t draft Mazi Smith or another big IDL ahead of that? Curious what he’s shown on tape.
I’ve been looking at Clark and Brodric (great name, poor spelling) Martin out of WKU. They both have similar size:
6’4 – 6’5, 335-340 lbs with longer arms.
Both of them seem to me to be decent options on day 3. Their strengths/best roles seem to be 1T run-stuffers. I think Martin has a little quicker get-off and is maybe the better disruptor, while Clark is more of a clogger/occupier of blocks.
It has seemed to me that PCJS don’t value interior DL all that much. We have consistently finished off the DT position by making signings very late in the off-season. For that reason, I’ve been having second thoughts about the likelihood they would consider a player like Mazi Smith early.
I also like looking for alternatives, where a similar player might be the pivot option.
If they like Tyree, but don’t want to spend up – I think Zach Harrison is very comparable 2 rounds later
It they like Mazi, but don’t want to spend up – I think Jerrod Clark and Brodric Martin are viable in rounds 4+
If they like Anderson but go QB – I think Will MacDonald looks every bit as explosive and exciting with #20
Rob has pointed out Wypler as a later version of JMS, and Juice Scruggs as another fallback. I have a hard time scouting offensive linemen, so I abstain from an opinion here.
TE, Safety and RB are really fun IMO as you can have guys you like on day 1, 2 or 3.
The more I think about it, too, the more I see WR3 as being a much, much bigger need than people are talking about. We have basically nothing past DK and Lockett. I’m sure Lockett has plenty left in the tank but he is getting older and entering the last year of his contract, and I’m not exactly comfortable going into the year with Dareke Young as WR3. Depending on how the board falls I feel like that will be a prime target at 20 or 37, and if we do go QB at 5, we’ll have to really count on mid-late round guys to round out the defensive front. Seems like 90% of fans are clamoring to use every draft pick on defense but I wouldn’t be surprised (or disappointed) if 3 of our first 4 picks are on offense (QB, C, and WR or TE).
We could definitely use a WR3. It’s a pity that the WR class isn’t as robust as it has been in recent years. On the flip side, the TE class looks great. Of the TE’s that would be in the 20 or 37 range, only Mayer and Washington look like all-around TE’s that block as well as they run routes.
For WR, many of the top options are slot guys – Zay Jones, Addison, JSN, – Dell & Mims a bit later. They are all kind of in that Dee Eskridge mold. Are we writing him off and doubling down on a small slot guy? Open-ended question, not a challenge.
Hyatt and Downs are tiny as well, even if they weren’t full time slot guys.
So far, Eskridge has looked like a bigger bust than Bosworth. I don’t think Seattle even attempted a pass to him that went at least ten yards past scrimmage: they obviously don’t trust him to run routes. I’m ready to count him as a sunk cost and draft a WR high.
Let him compete for his roster spot. If he doesn’t do better than last year, I’m fine with cutting bait. He doesn’t look like he knows how to play football.
I really feel they need to take a WR at 20, 37 at the latest, if only to hedge against Lockett or DK getting hurt. Tough choices, since we need a C and a DT and a big DE like Ade Ade.
Some nice flashes on tape. Thought he did alright at the Senior Bowl. His frame is really sloppy though.
While I hope we come out of this draft with a QBOTF and a much improved defense, more than anything I want the Seahawks to demonstrate during this season at least one area where we are special i.e. top 5 in SOMETHING… rushing, passing, total offense, pass defense, etc. Just something to hang our hat on. I think it’s most possible for us to have a Top 5 rushing attack and Top 5 total offense. Shucks, we already have one of the best receiving duo’s, and KW3, as well. We could potentially build this with only a few personnel additions via the draft or free agency. We would need four players: a RG/RT, WR3, RB2 and Center. The key, IMO, is RG/RT and I’m thinking you draft Dawand Jones and kick Abe Lucas inside, as has been discussed here often. After that, there’s a good number of quality receivers and running backs who will be available Day 2, as displayed in Rob’s Horizontal Board. Plus, there’s still a bunch of good running backs available in FA. If we can cement the OL by drafting Luke Wypler or maybe Olu Olu at Center (started 49 games at Michigan, Remington award winner), we would have an impressive line-up on offense and still have ammo to improve our DL and defense in general. Not to be forgotten, a side benefit of having a dominant offense/rushing attack is we keep the defense off the field.
Well, the NFL owners meeting started today with the AFC breakfast this morning. I saw some hard-hitting questions asked to Sean Payton and Mike Tomlin. It wasn’t, “How great is it to have Bobby Wagner back?”
We’ll know more about what the Texans and Colts intentions are after they get liquored up tonight. And when they get completely blitzed they’ll start talking about rule changes.
😂
Do we need to send in our private investigator again?
*hic* What if we *hic* made the ball square? *hic*
You know, it occurs to me that we’ve been down this road before with a tweener defensive lineman, and it didn’t go well. And it was this front office that ended the experiment.
The Hawks’ 1st-round pick in 2008: Lawrence Jackson, DE, USC
Jackson was 6’5″, 270 lbs. Hard to compare the other stats when Tyree Wilson hasn’t run any, but Pete and John traded Jackson in summer 2010 to the Lions for a ham sandwich.
Lawrence Jackson was traded because wasn’t very good, and the Seahawks were able to get a 6th rounder based on him being a former 1st round pick. They were probably releasing him otherwise.
Remember, they didn’t start running a 3-4 until last year, really, with the bear front happening in 2021. They were mostly a 4-3 otherwise, and why Carlos Dunlap was good with them in 2021.
I think 1 of the 3 teams that need a QB is going to buy into Richardson’s star power and Seattle will end up with Will Levis. It’s the way my mock ends up going 8/10 times. Pick 20 I think they try to trade down a little not just for a pick but because they feel they would be reaching for their guy and I like to believe it would be Darnell Washington. Before the combine I wasn’t even considering a TE in the draft. Washington just caught my eye that a big man like him could so athletic. Forget the 1 hand and just watch him on the sled and gauntlet drill. He hit the sled with leaverage and pushed it pure strength without riding up like the others. The gauntlet he ran the route straight and caught the away from his body with both 11” hands. They pass to him 60 times but when they did he caught the ball 28 times for a 16.2 yard average which totals pretty close to same amount of yards Fant had with 50 catches. He’s a junior with 2 college championships and he needs some learning on his footwork but what college player doesn’t. He help the OL and the run game plus he probably be the first draft pick Seattle use 5th year option.
Pick 37 we will just have to see if JMS and if he’s not grab Keion White and Wypler at 52. I’m not going panick over a NT reaching for one with all the other needs. Byron Young will be the sleeper in this draft at 83 and he can play all 3 DL spots. You can slide him into NT spot on passing downs. After the 3rd round well that’s where you start getting your value as some players slide.
Looking for ways to create cap room. What is Nwosu’s trade value and could it be a real possibility with some strong options in the draft? 2nd rounder? With the Wagner signing cutting Adams (and Mone) won’t be enough.
I’d be pretty strongly against that option given he was one of the few bright spots on the D. I’d much rather extend him and lower his cap hit this year.
Why would you give a guy with9.5 sacks last year and leave a bigger hole to fill. You extend him a year he still young.
That would be counterintuitive, we trade one of our better pass rushers for a potential 2nd rounder? He’s also still young and possibly a rising star? Rather just extend him for another 3 years.
To be clear: I would extend him too and don’t want to trade him. Just want to know what we could possibly get for him. Maybe trading him for a day 2 pick and 8,5M in cap space is more appealing to our FO than 24M in dead money for Adams.
How realistic are the trade proposals on the pfn draft simulator? The site is fun as hell to play with but am wondering about those trades that get offered to Seattle. With knowing little more than what I learn here on Rob’s blog, I can score some pretty nifty draft hauls.
Not realistic
Fun though….
Not only does it usually overpay, it’s always for ridiculous targets. I’m like sweet! The Commanders are trading up to 3 to get a QB, err Myles Murphy??
I’ve found they’re not that realistic.
It’s pretty silly.
Last simulation had Philly trade 10, 30, & 62 for 5. They picked Devon Witherspoon and I was able to get Levis at 10.
Then Buffalo traded 27 & 59 for 20 & 198 to get Cam Smith.
Ended up with 3 1sts & 4 2nds to draft a whole bunch of SDB favorites.
Have a question:
If say Indianapolis drafted Anderson at #4; then after the 1st round signed Lamar to an offer sheet how would that affect things.
I’m guessing Houston could do something similar. They could Go Anderson at #2 get another player at #12, then after round 1 give Jackson an offer the Ravens wouldn’t match.
Seems like an easy way for Indianapolis to get the top Defensive player add another Quality player & still get their answer at QB.
In this case neither team gives up a 2023 1st and still gets Jackson.
Am I correct on this?
I think Atlanta is the team most likely to do this and after the draft
So you can actually do it then? If so, and in your Scenario it’s incredibly risky by Baltimore; to lose their QB for what could be 0 picks in 2023
Yep, zero picks in ’23. They do have Huntley. I’m guessing the chances of Atlanta doing this are still slim, and Baltimore does have the right of first refusal. However, what if Atlanta goes almost or totally fully guaranteed which would likely preclude Baltimore from matching? Atlanta would know that and thus know they could get away with waiting til after this draft. Just spit balling here.
Thanks guys pretty much what I thought, but didn’t want to assume
It’s not just signing him to an offer sheet. Baltimore still has right of refusal.
What happens when they punt on QB, while being at #2 or #4, and then Baltimore matches the offer? GM is likely fired, I’d guess. The best case scenario is a massive overpay to ensure that Baltimore doesn’t match, which carries its own risk.
Daiyan Henley was just on KJR, has visits at a bunch of spots, none in Seattle. But he did say that there was “mutual” interest in being in Seattle. He’s a great interview.
He specifically said he thought he would be a good fit for the Seattle, San Francisco, and Houston defenses. He specifically mentioned Demeco Ryans, who was a damn good linebacker back in the day…
…and I’ll bet that is not a coincidence.
Henley said he recently had an hour+ zoom meeting with Seattle’s LB coach. He’d be a great pick..he was field-tilting for.the coug defense from snap 1 last.year and the D dropped off noticeably after Henley got dinged up late in the season
With one month to go until the first day of the draft, here are my draft hopefuls for each Seattle pick:
1 (5) Will Levis QB
1 (20) Adetormiwa Adebawore DE
2 (6) John Michael Schmitz C
2 (21) Nolan Smith Edge
3 (20) Zach Charbonnet RB
4 (21) Byron Young (Alabama) DE
5 (17) Keidron Smith CB
5 (20) Bryce Ford-Wheaton WR
6 (21) McCelndon Curtis G
7 (20) Owen Pappoe LB
Hard to find any fault with your draft wish list, these all look like solid picks even if Nolan Smith is a bit of a tweener. I really hope we can draft/add a reliable WR3, and who knows maybe Ford-Wheaton is that guy? Love Charbonnet as a backup to K9. Need to get tougher up front though, and this is a great start!
Does anyone know where the full interview is for this clip?
https://youtu.be/67RPXwuGMtE
It’s very interesting, listening to PC talk about the top four QB’s
I’ve found a longer clip on NFL.com
https://www.nfl.com/videos/#
I’m sure people will say it’s a smokescreen but sure sounds like PC is talking like they’re prepared to draft one of the top four QB’s
“We may never have this opportunity again” That is as simple and succinct a reason to take a QB at #5 as I have heard. Simple as that.
💯
Here’s a better, more direct link:
https://www.nfl.com/videos/pete-carroll-discusses-seahawks-draft-capital-geno-smith-s-future-at-annual-leag
This is the direct link to the video if would help you embed it. I’m sure it will be available soon enough on YouTube and/or Twitter anyways.
https://dcs-vod.mp.lura.live/vod/p/5416400/prog.m3u8?i=i176971824-n714e910b-e384-4749-8f86-219ab1e99df3
I can’t imagine them drafting Tyree Wilson after hearing this.
If it truly is the case & they believe it’s that rare of an opportunity; I would have to believe they’re thinking about moving up. They don’t want to be so close and miss out on a QB by 1 pick.
There is no way Pete is only going to the QB pro days, talks like that about this opportunity and won’t be taking a QB if one is there at 5. Hell, to me it says that I think if there was an opportunity to move up they would, but Arizona is never going to trade with us. Also talking about how geno and lock “know what’s going on”
Amazing, even old ass PC is using the same exact phrasing Ive been saying all offseason. “We may never have this opportunity again” is something Ive said multiple times.
That’s the bottom line isn’t it KD?
Sure is 🙂
You have to be delusional to think any of this is smokescreen. And smokescreening what exactly? Gaining an extra 5th round pick in a trade down or whatever?
“…so that if an opportunity does fit us that we’re prepared and ready to pounce on it, well here we are, #5 pick, and there’s legitimately four great prospects coming out in the quarterback spot.”
Now obviously this doesn’t mean we’ll take a quarterback 100%, but it’s straight delusional to think that we aren’t even considering it, with such a rare opportunity at the most important position in football with “legitimately four great prospects” available. We are absolutely considering it and we’ll see on draft day what happens.
This is what Ive been saying all offseason. As good as Anderson may be, he just won’t have the impact like a potential QBoTF would on this team. Especially considering theres other good options on the DL in the 20-60 range in the draft that can suit your needs.
And add this to what he literally said on the Rich Eisen show two weeks ago, right after re-signing Geno, that QBs are “top of mind”:
Pete Carroll: Drafting a QB at #5 Is “Top of Mind” for the Seahawks | The Rich Eisen Show
https://youtu.be/eQ1HHE88ANM
I mean, what more do people want him to say? Literally give the name of who they are targeting or what…?
For the smooth brains probably. They will just say its all a “sMoKeScReEn!!!!” 5d cHeSs!!!! until draft day.
What’s unclear to me, and hopefully John has a good idea of who’s going 1-4, is which quarterback they prefer and how much. Is it worth getting up and getting your guy, or letting someone fall to you and being relatively certain it’s the guy you want? I’d love to see how they rank these four.
“PC is talking like they’re prepared to draft one of the top four QB’s.” –RS
And Mike Tannenbaum just clued us in as to whom exactly PCJS are scoping at #5 overall: Hendon Hooker. (Insert LOL emoji.)
I’ll bet money that Carter will fail his conditioning test at training camp, where ever that is.
I’m seeing plenty of people saying, “In John we trust” when they’re trying to justify taking Carter at #5. Funny how that feeling fades when it comes to taking a QB. It’s almost as if they’re starting from a desired outcome and working backwards. Like it was never about trusting John in the first place.
Confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance all in 1! Gotta love Seahawks “fans” I tell ya.
I’m sure his personality is not everyone’s cup of tea, but this guy sometimes… 😂
https://twitter.com/eric_crocker/status/1640401983860359188
He’s such a character, joined Chris Simms podcast and had some really interesting ideas. Tua training in judo and basically learning how to fall more safely is pretty cool.
Rob, thanks for all that you do. In terms of the draft, I’m increasingly doubtful about mazi smith making it to 37. Thoughts on taking him in the first or hard pass?
I think it’d be easier to roll with if he tested fully healthy and achieved his expected numbers. There aren’t many nose tackles but that would probably feel like reaching for a need.
“”Pairing someone who is highly athletic and disruptive like Adebawore, Kancey or White with a big nose tackle like Smith is a very enticing prospect.””
Rob, I couldn’t agree more with your above statement. My concern is that Mazi Smith is currently “consensus ranked” prospect at #38. The NT options are FEW in this draft. If one of the 3 pass rushers above are picked at #20 and they plan on Mazi Smith with pick at #37, maybe he’s long gone? I suppose the Seahawks could trade up to the beginning of round 2 area or late round 1and pick him there? Thoughts on the VERY thin NT class? Seems most of the late rounders and UDFA’s would be nothing more than “space eaters” aka: “speed bumps”.
With Al Woods cut (or maybe his retirement?) a BIG hole in the middle is unfilled, making NT a real DL need, Correct? LEVIS -or- Richardson + Adebawore -or- Kancey + Mazi Smith sounds like a wonderful start to the
draft to me. Maybe they draft Mazi Smith at #20 and one of the 3 pass rushers mentioned at pick #37 & is a
more logical approach, considering the current rankings and lack of NT talent in the draft?
The Hawks haven’t drafted a true DT since Malik in 2017. Maybe you can count a 6th round investment on Demarcus Christmas in 2019, but that’s the only 300+ lb DL we’ve taken in a draft in 5 drafts. Collier and Rasheem were the only 270+ other DL we’ve taken, and they were more 5T than 1T.
I mentioned above, but the more I look (past drafts) and think about their actions (no NT on the roster and signing vet DL in FA – often late), the more I think Mazi is an unlikely pick. The difference between Mazi and Jerrod Clark, Cameron Young or Brodric Martin probably isn’t the same as the difference between other positions at pick 37 and pick 198.
Josh Downs plus Brodric Martin or Mazi Smith plus Jaden Haselwood? I’m guessing here, but I think Pete would take the dynamic skill player early and the ‘speed bump’ late.
That’s if they even look to the draft for that hole. Between mid-August and the end of the month, teams cut from 85 to 53. That’s around 600 roster cuts and where picking up a vet DL often happens. Or a trade (ill-fated as it was) for a guy like Gabe Jackson for a late round future pick.
Personally, I’m trying not to get too excited over Seattle’s opportunity to land one of the top 4 qbs. At this point, I’d be ok with any of the four, but being a worry-wart, and having witnessed far too many first round whiffs by PC and JS, I’m nervous that they’ll end up stuck with Anderson or do something utterly off the wall.
I am excited to see what they do about the big gaping holes at WR, DL, and C. I expect those positions to be picks 2-5, not just because I see those as our greatest need other than QB, but because those positions have players we all like that are likely to go in that range, and WR and C at least are not positions that are stacked with talent in this draft. You can usually find a DT worth taking after the second round, but maybe not so much at WR or C.
Like Rob, I hope they don’t have to go positional need over talent in the first 2-3 rounds. There should be good players at positions of need without reaching. My hope is the board comes to them, like it did last year. Another Draft like last season would go a long way towards building a solid core for the future.
It’s going to be really interesting to see how their draft falls out, and what roster holes will remain to be filled in free agency. It will be even more interesting to see what moves they make to gain the needed cap space.
Also, I wonder which rbs they will target, and how many are on their board. Another back to spell Walker is needed, but we need another third down back too after losing Homer.
I’m dying for Seattle to get their QB at 5, and I’m not excited about the prospect of Hooker later, but I guess if all the qbs are gone and we get Anderson and Hooker it would be quite an exciting couple years too, until we know what we’ve got.
Not counting my trepidation regarding our first pick, I’m really excited about the Draft. It’s going to be damn cool to have two firsts and two seconds to fill the roster with, and this year looks to have a good chunk of good players on the board through the second round.
Lifetime lurker here, I don’t know how people on the radio and podcasts have jobs, when they are so fricken sideways wrong about drafting Jalen Carter at #5, not looking at you Michael Bumpus and Seahawks Bloggers, well maybe a little! Getting Wilson at #5 WTF! I have to say how much i was excited to shop Russell off to Denver last year and couldn’t believe we got so much for him, and also couldn’t believe what concessions they gave Hollywood Russ. we nailed the draft and i hope we do it again this year, don’t get cute, grab your guys when you can. The last few years the job Rob has done on all this blog has been spot on and even the interviews and videos have been top notch, we seriously needed this shakeup/rebuild as fans and avid participants. It’s going to be a long month and i’ll seriously try to be patient, but I have to turn off the radio before i toss it off my balcony. Thanks Rob, Cha, Robbie for being the most sensible guys out there in a world full of parrots.
Thanks Mike
Of all the silly reasons for the Seahawks fans not wanting to draft a QB next month, signing Drew Lock for a few million dollars is the lamest
Believing that the Seahawks signed Lock to only a one year contract for chump change does not in any way indicate that PCJS view him as the QBOTF.
Seahawks “fans” and buying into bad and fallacious arguments….. Name a more iconic duo 😂.
And for only 1.75m guaranteed. Which means if the rookie proves themselves capable enough to be backup, Lock will be cut. And even Geno could get Matt Flynn’d.
Some more AR-15 material for y’all. Just a clip from Kay Adams’ show. I know Pete Carroll will fall in love with him whenever they interview him. He’s got that grit that Pete and John look for.
https://youtu.be/Vi9aQ2-tckY
Umm…he doesn’t want to be called that.
Seriously, on a day like this too. Have some class
We don’t politics here.
He can call him whatever he wants. Get a grip on things that matter rather then virtue signaling.
Back to ball
I apologize if I offended anyone, I really didn’t mean to. I just thought the name was catchy since it’s his initials and he wears the number 15.
Don’t apologize, bro
Wow…
Literally just the perfect human being for Pete Carroll to have as his swan song. Imagine Pete Carroll picks the greatest QB athlete of all time and coaches him into being on the level of QB as the top 3 in the league?
This sounds like the grittiest QB.
And I want him.
I pray every day the panthers Texans and colts don’t ruin my dream
I guess I don’t understand. Tyree Wilson has 7 sacks during the 2022 season. Tuli Tuipulotu has 13.5 sacks. 22 tackles for loss. He plays for a major school. Why does Tyree got mocked in the top ten (usually top 6) but T.T. doesn’t get mocked until the 2nd round? Why is Wilson getting all this attention? But T.T. hardly gets noticed.
Selfie question. The front office is having their selfie with all the top QBs. The question is: are the Seahawks doing a miss direction. Do they want the first four picks to be QBs? That way they can take Will Anderson Jr.
Just curious.
People assume Pete and company use smokescreens, miss direction, but I think history is they are pretty honest.
Sure ‘they won’t give it away’ and they like to have fun with the draft ‘clues’ but they usually follow direction given in the end of the season speeches, or comments by John.
Maybe everyone else uses smokescreens, but I think John and Pete are pretty true to their previously discussed direction.
Tyree Wilson is 6’ 6’’, 271 with 35 5/8″ arms.
T.T is 6’3″, 266, with 32 1/4″ arms. Huge difference. He is a tweener.
As for the “smoke screen”, the question to think about is what kind of GM who pours hours into scenarios in the draft would be fooled by a selfie?
Please, please, please anyone other than Tyree Wilson. I don’t care what his measurements are. His tape is 2nd round with a good chance to bust.
If he didn’t have size, he’d be a day 3 pick. Dude depends on out muscling guys, which works in college. But when it’s your only move, experienced and smart OL can sit on that and be ready for it. He’s basically a pitcher that throws a 98 mph fastball in the minor leagues and doesn’t have any breaking pitches to go to. I’d rather take a long snapper at 5 than Wilson.
I don’t see a huge pressing need to reach. They have Jones and Reed and while not superstars, both quality players. I think they can get a good DE in R2 and maybe one in R3. They can get a space-eater NT later.
I think they see it like they have DE1 and DE2, so only need players to rotate in. Not saying they won’t double/triple-select a DE/DT but I’m not worried they need to absolutely reach for it.
As for missing out on the players: I’d love Mayer, but A, the only time I remember they pushed resources into TE was with Graham. With 3 TEs on the roster, I doubt they want another. I’d be extatic if they’d draft him, I think a great TE is almost a must have for a really successful franchise, but I don’t see them taking Mayer. They just don’t value the position that much. For Gibbs and Robinson – after the K9 pick, don’t see them taking an RB that early. Again, wouldn’t mind, but they have K9 and there are other good RBs to be have later on. As for CB, it’s not their MO to draft them in R1 and the roster is in decent shape for the secondary. WR3 could be in play but there are a couple of interesting guys so they could get one in R2. But if they think Lockett is closing soon he’s career they might want to take that road. Only place where I could see the need, the value for them and the talent might align is center (and there’s a dropoff after the 2 Rob highlighted).
So if they pass on these players, I’m not sure it’d be because they reach for a DL. They might not value the position or the added value (as an RB2 or WR3) that much.
If they select Ade Ade #20 I won’t be mad, that guy is a freak. If they select Mayer for example and get their DL guys in R2/3/4 I can see that too (although I’d be surprised a bit but really happy)
Interesting points from Tommy, Geoff u, JimQ, Brodie and others on the NT debate.
I think I side with Brodie on this… go for a later round NT – ‘JAG or a ‘speed bump'(!)’ + pick up a summer cut in that position. There’s bound to be someone there. Maybe it’s Al Woods if healthy. Maybe it’s a sumo wrestler.
The mood in camp here and on twitter dropped radically over the Al Woods cut. Before that we were pretty positive on every group, and the chances of going BPA early and often in the draft.
I can’t see one cut of an aging NT should change that (and I love Al Woods!)
If Mazi Smith is close to BPA at #37 then maybe you do that and sure up NT for the future. Would feel like a pick we can all be happy with, as Rob says in the article.
If there’s someone else you love at #37 – a WR, or a TE, or a CB – then don’t reach. Get some bodies in to compete for NT.
Agree completely with this. Will admit that only having 5 Safeties and only 3 DL on the roster is a little concerning however.
Jeez – I just committed daylight robbery on the PFF mock sim.
#5 CJ Stroud (Levis went #1 to Carolina)
#20 Zay Flowers
#37 Ade Ade
#52 John M Schmitz
I should probably stop playing with that thing and getting my hopes up.
Currently I think each of those 4 will be long gone by those picks!!
Where’s Mazi?
I will say only one thing. Seahawks will neither take a QB at #5 nor move up for one. First, in a different year, they might be high on Stroud, but he will go #1, possibly #2. And even in a different year, here is a statistic. In his one season as the Jets HC, 3 seasons as the Pats HC and now 13 seasons as the Hawks HC, he has only ONCE been involved in picking ANY QB in the top 3 rounds. And never in the first or second round, but only when he allowed Schneider to take Russ in round 3 back in 2012. They had just brought in Matt Flynn as for big bucks to be their starting QB. Schneider was so high on Russ that he tried to have them pick Russ in round two. Where they took Bobby instead. Suspect Pete played a key part. Schneider was then later allowed to take Russ in round 3 and was also successful in his lobbying to make it an open QB competition between Russ and Flynn at camp. And that was more than a decade ago in Carroll’s relative youth. No way that he will have them take any QB available at #5. Of all the coaches and teams, no way he would do that now. Never done it whe he was younger either.
2+2=7
Pete Carroll had four total seasons in his previous gigs and Russell Wilson for the bulk of his current one
That’s hardly evidence to say he isn’t willing to draft a QB
Based on this, he wouldn’t have drafted Joe Burrow ‘because he’s never done that before’
SeaViking:
1) In his previous stops, Carroll lacked the personnel influence that he enjoys today, so I wouldn’t count those drafts.
2) The 2010–2022 drafts did not offer PCJS a chance to draft a bigtime QB prospect without a major trade-up or trade-in (well, not counting last year’s #9 overall affording them a shot at Malik Willis. . .LOL).
3) “SeaViking”. Hmmm. That would be Portland State, then?
Wyche just tweeted the convo
https://twitter.com/wyche89/status/1640778447336120349
Wyche: Are you going to any more pro days, other than (for) the quarterbacks?
Carroll: No. That’s my last one, yeah… [becoming visibly sanguine.] I got… [gathering self, afterglow-suffused] I’m heading to Gainesville.
Just a thought to share…
It seems apparent that Anderson is probably the Cardinals best play. If they can get him at 5 and pick up a high pick from Seattle that might be a good deal for them. Seattle is one of only two teams they could trade with and still get the guy they want.
What if that took a lot of the premium off the trade price?
What if Seattle did that trade, and then turned around and traded down to a team like the Raiders? A team who would have to pay a serious premium to move up, but wouldn’t have Seattle moving out of the top 10 or so where they still get a first round talent player.
The reason this could work all hinges with Seattle being only one of two teams they could do a trade with, and still get their guy if the QB’s are slated to go 1-4.
If the Hawks could get a nice haul for doing this, it could be an option to consider.
They’re not trading up to #3 just to trade down to #7
That isn’t happening
And then who do you take at #7? A guard??