Sunday thoughts on the Seahawks and the quarterback position

Just a few things that are kicking around in my mind…

— Are John Schneider, Mike Macdonald and Ryan Grubb all referencing Drew Lock, despite the fact he’s a free agent, for two reasons? One, to make him know how much they want to retain him so that he feels wanted. Two, because if they do trade Geno Smith, they want everyone else to know how much they like him to avoid tipping their hand in the draft?

— I don’t know how anyone’s takeaway from Adam Schefter’s report on Smith’s contract wasn’t ‘the Seahawks are sending a message that they’re open to trading Geno’. As I said at the time, there was no reason for Schefter to quote-tweet himself adding the line on his value to potential suitors unless it was a reality. I think if you’re prepared to read between the lines — the Seahawks are very much open to offers. We’ll see if they get a serious one before March 18th.

— I thought this was interesting too — the flagship radio station, Seattle Sports, had John Schneider on air for a whole segment on the day Schefter reported the news about Smith’s contract. Not a single question was asked about Geno. I can’t believe they just forgot and suspect this was deliberate. If it was a formality that Smith is staying with the team, this would’ve been an excellent opportunity for Schneider to express so on the day the news broke about his contract. The entire subject was dodged. Again, read between the lines.

— I’ve felt since Schneider’s solo press conference that a trade was a distinct possibility. I think the biggest supporters of Geno have been most the vocal in building the case for his talent. Hugh Millen presented a number of counter statistics on KJR, painting a different picture. Not all of the issues are down to Smith, of course. But neither does he deserve to be completely absolved for average output in 2023 (and let’s not forget, he failed to hit a single escalator in his contract). Softy and Millen raised a reasonable point on the show. What if Schneider feels, after two seasons, he’s seen what Smith’s ceiling is and simply wants to try something else? Is that really so incomprehensible? Especially if he believes this is a quarterback class worth tapping into?

— Let’s also not forget that the Seahawks are not in a great cap situation. They’re $9.5m over the cap (effective cap space) this year and only have $22.5m to spend next year. It might not be the greatest 2024 saving to part with Geno ($13.8m) but if they’ve already made the decision to move on, they might as well get something (anything) via a trade than just cut him. It would also clear $33.7m off the books for 2025 — which could be important if you want to extend Leonard Williams or sign other free agents and manager your year-one cap hits.

— If the Seahawks do part with Smith, it wouldn’t be that difficult to set up a draft hedge. Mike Macdonald will be aware of Tyler Huntley from Baltimore while Joshua Dobbs had some relative success in 2023 and Sam Darnold and Tyrod Taylor are also free agents. None of the four will be expensive and could provide a cheap backup for Lock. That could get you into the draft, if the intention is to select a rookie and let them be the lead horse for the starting role. I know names like this might make you shudder but I don’t think enough people are entertaining the possibility that Seattle’s plan is to reset with a new, young QB in 2024 under a new, younger regime without the need for a well paid bridge.

— Trading down from #16 to fill out the board on day two feels inevitable. It’s hard to imagine Schneider waiting 62 picks to select in a class with attractive day-two options. Don’t be surprised if the Seahawks manipulate the board to pad out their collection of picks before drafting the quarterback they want.

— I’ve noticed recently that I’m being called a ‘Michael Penix Jr hater’ despite mocking him to the Seahawks in my only two full projections so far. It’s weird because during the season I felt obliged to offer context to the rampant overboard praise he was getting — simply by highlighting the truth that he had a stretch in the season where his performance level dipped. Now, the reverse is true. I feel the need to start talking him up because things have gone the other way and people have gone right off him.

— Here’s the thing with Penix Jr — there are legit reasons to be excited about his potential. His arm talent is exceptional. It isn’t ‘good’ or ‘decent’. It’s exceptional. Do people realise how difficult this throw is?

I could post 15 other throws to make the same point. Possibly more. He is throwing to areas of the field, deep downfield, that most quarterbacks can’t even consider attempting to reach. And he’s doing it with supreme touch at times, as you see above. I’ve watched every game the top quarterbacks in the last three years have played, aside from three of Drake Maye’s and four of J.J. McCarthy’s (I will get to them). Penix Jr makes stunning throws.

So while there are concerns about the short and intermediate passes or the fact he’s not a mad improv creator who will extend a ton of plays and make magic happen — he can be a pocket-passing dynamo. Remember the Ron Wolf mentality — focus on what a player can be. Remember that Patrick Mahomes wasn’t on Daniel Jeremiah’s top-50 list a month before the 2017 draft. Remember that 12 years ago Russell Wilson was dismissed as a short quarterback and likely day three pick.

Penix Jr as a player sitting in the pocket and challenging opponents downfield could be thrilling to watch at the next level. He’s also a well respected leader, he elevated the Huskies to new heights, he’s very experienced and he has a fantastic relationship with the new offensive coordinator.

I might’ve been providing balance a few months ago — now it’s time to remind people why he’s a very viable option for the Seahawks.

— I noted the critical third down and scrambling statistics to highlight why J.J. McCarthy could be very appealing to teams. A quick reminder if you missed the graph — Penix Jr ranked second to McCarthy for on target 3rd and 4th down drop-back passes beyond the sticks. He ranked second in the same category when the conversion distance was more than five yards:

He also led the NCAA in PFF grade on play-action, led the NCAA in big time throws and ranked second for big time throws off play action.

The areas where he struggled were completion percentage when scrambling (an awful 23.3%) and completion percentage on third and long. The context for the third and long statistic, of course, was that he attempted a lot more third and long passes than the other quarterbacks. He attempted 60, Drake Maye was the only other QB to throw more than 50 (53).

So the one area where he isn’t good is scrambling. He excels in arm strength, play action, accuracy on 3rd and 4th down and big time throws. I’m not sure the scrambling aspect is enough to put the Seahawks off — or anyone else — and Penix Jr has gone from being overrated after the Texas game (legit pundits suggesting he could be the #2 pick) to suddenly being quite underrated.

— That said, look at Schneider’s quarterback history. Charlie Whitehurst was mobile and could get out of the pocket. Clearly Russell Wilson was exceptional on the move. Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen are two of the best when scrambling. Alex McGough was mobile and Andy Dalton, who Schneider was said to be fond of in 2011, ran for 1611 yards and 22 touchdowns in college. Maybe it’s a big deal after all? What I would say is Penix Jr is a very good athlete — testing well for sprinting speed at the Senior Bowl and I know he can jump a 38 inch vertical after personally visiting the UW facility. Perhaps he can develop into a more effective scrambler? If not, it’s something we need to consider as it pertains to his fit — but the Seahawks just actively sought the Washington offense by hiring Ryan Grubb. They must like aspects of a system that doesn’t feature a lot of scrambling.

— Can we at least acknowledge that if the Seahawks draft Michael Penix Jr he would be uniquely positioned to start quickly given his relationship with Ryan Grubb and the familiarity he’d have with the terminology being used? Again, it feels like many people are letting their personal admiration for Geno Smith (not a bad thing, by the way) influence how they believe the decision makers will act. I’m not saying the Seahawks will definitely draft Penix Jr. I think you can make a compelling case for it though and that it’s plausible they’d be willing to start him quickly, believing they can get immediate value out of a cheap rookie contract (just as they did under Russell Wilson). That would be more useful than ever as they re-set their cap over the next year or two.

Just a few thoughts (and that’s all we’ve got for a while). Let me know yours in the comments section.

Robbie, Adam and I came together for a live stream earlier —- if you missed it check it out below!


  1. 352 Hawk

    If the Seahawks (John Schneider) were to draft a QB wouldn’t they want to do this at the bottom of the 1st to get that 5th year on the rookie salary?🤔

    • Rob Staton

      I think this is an overrated aspect. If a QB succeeds you are more than likely paying them after three years anyway

      If it was a case of taking someone at say #30 vs #34 for the sake of another fifth rounder, sure. If someone offered you a great deal to move from #25 to #35 and you lose the fifth year option, I’d shrug at that

      • Hawkster

        I think in those rare cases where one as an MVP starting (Rodgers, Brady, Favre) and they want to pick up a late R1 QB for the maybe/future who is going to ride the bench for few years, the 5th year can be a pretty valuable, but that is the exception, not the rule.

  2. DriveByPoster

    The Drew Lock thing is a bit of an odd one, isn’t it. Name-dropping a player who isn’t under contract seems very weird. My take on it is that they are trying to use him as leverage to negotiate Geno’s contract down. In effect, saying ‘Look, we are prepared to go with Drew if you don’t play ball’.

    So I think they would be happy to keep Geno on a much reduced contract but will try & trade him if that doesn’t work out & cut him if even that fails.

    I can’t imagine that they would have gone down this path if they didn’t have some kind of verbal understanding with Lock. Otherwise, if I were him, I would just walk & find a job elsewhere. After all, if they really wanted him they would have got him signed up already.

    In either event, I think you are right. There will definitely be at least one new face in the QB room this year.

    • Rob Staton

      The Drew Lock thing is a bit of an odd one, isn’t it. Name-dropping a player who isn’t under contract seems very weird. My take on it is that they are trying to use him as leverage to negotiate Geno’s contract down.

      If that was the plan, they would’ve done it before last Friday

      Plus I think they would’ve buttered Geno up a bit more — trying to convince him to go on a journey with the new regime to save money. Instead, they’re being lukewarm about him, Schefter’s virtually touting the possibility of a trade and Schneider isn’t being asked about Geno on the flagship station the day his contract news broke

      I think this is as simple as they are willing to move on from Geno and want to keep Lock

      • Eric

        I noticed the same exact thing. How could they not talk about QB1 getting his contract guaranteed when everyone on Planet Social Media Seahawks was speculating whether or not Geno was going to be cut or not. My opinion has always been that I wouldn’t trade for Geno if I was another GM, however, they have so much more data and information than I ever do, that if they thought he had no trade value, they probably would have cut him. So, he should have trade value even if they get a 7th rounder, its better than nothing.

        My ears also perked up at how player decisions were made before and how they are now. Also, furthering the point of how they built the Super Bowl roster with major roster churn to how it settled down once they were at the peak made sense. The verbal and non-verbals from JS about “doing a deep dive” on a player screamed to me that Pete had way more influence on players, ESPECIALLY considering the contractual changes for JS about 5-6 years ago. Also, why not return to the “competition” to the extreme and leaving no stone unturned when they fell off. I look forward to hearing the stories in 10-15 years of how the organization operated. There have to be some crazy stories.

        • Parallax

          Schneider claims that things won’t really change in terms of drafting and signing players. But I don’t think he’s being forthright. He seems to view his job as one of getting the head coach the resources the coach wants and needs. In that sense, from Schneider’s point of view, it might not be all that different. But I hope and pray that Schneider would have made smarter choices than our flashy trades that seemed from the start to offer bad value. Same for free agent signings and the contracts we’ve offered some of our veterans.

          I’m sure he’ll want to do right by Macdonald. Let’s hope that Macdonald has far better judgment than Carroll.

      • Elmer

        A few thoughts:

        1, If they part with Geno it does not mean that they see Lock as the savior. They are likely to draft a QB reasonably early.

        2. There will be several QB’s out there looking for jobs in the offseason. It is probably more difficult to trade Geno than it might appear to be.

        3. if they retain Geno they (a) are probably less likely to draft a QB, effectively kicking the QB solution down the road for another year, and (b) may effectively put themselves in a financial box that reduces their ability to solve roster problems.

  3. L80

    The tasks that JS has accomplished with the staff are phenominal. Couple that with all the teams own F.A. and cap and it’s a daunting and challenging time.

    Actually, JS is going to set the table for years to come with these initial moves. I’m having a lot more confidence after these hires. It seems like he will be totally in tune with the entire staff about all of it, and to me that is vitally important.

    The decisions with current players is more than likely priority 1. After that, the Combine and F.A…….Going to be so fun and exciting to see it all.

    I too believe Smith will be traded, JS is a smart dude, he knows where the meat and potaoes of this draft are.

  4. LouCityHawk

    On being a hater: if you don’t say Geno is on par with Mahomes – you’re a hater; if you don’t think that Penix should be pick 1 – you’re a hater. We’ve entered the twilight zone – unlike the rest of us commoners – Rob gets the heat from people being in their emotions over him. Never quite figured out how he pee’d in their cheerios.

    I’ve received a ton of pushback from saying that Mac, Grubb, Schneider have not said any bright line, ‘he is our guy’, statements no one can offer me one though – just their reading of tone and body language? Not even that.

    The trade down does feel inevitable, absent a strange happening (Daniels, Chop, etc..), maybe even 2 trade downs.

    It may just be mental on my part, but I go from being unhappy with Penix at 16 to loving the pick in the early 3rd. This may be because I feel a 3rd is easier to move on from, and also because it allows for grabbing some other very good players.

    The mantra is new regimes mean new QBS, and this is a quasi-new regime.

    • Rob Staton

      Rob gets the heat from people being in their emotions over him. Never quite figured out how he pee’d in their cheerios.

      We talked about the Wilson trade saga, the Jamal Adams trade, the Pete Carroll era going south, the likelihood of Seahawks Twitter’s draft darling Jalen Carter not being taken etc.

      We’ll never be forgiven by some people for saying the inconvenient things out loud

      And just think — before all of that I was criticised for being ‘too positive’ 😂

      No sweat. We’ll keep doing what we do. For those who enjoy it, it’ll always be here. For those who don’t — well quite a few of them still seem to read everything anyway…

      • Big Mike

        We’ll never be forgiven by some people for saying the inconvenient things out loud

        Maybe, and maybe it’s just that you’ve been right far more often than not on these subjects.

        • Group Captain Mandrake

          Worse than being proven wrong on a subject is being proven wrong by someone who grew up with the wrong football.

          • Valerie

            Perfectly stated!

      • Ralphy

        Thank you Rob for always attempting to be a truth teller and not a puff piece writer.

    • Peter

      It’s pretty obvious to me….

      Rob doesn’t say what the people want to hear. Full stop.

      I don’t go to .net, I don’t read field gulls unless Rob mentions an article of note. I watch a ton of draft videos from non seahawks affiliated folks.

      I’ve said it before but the farther out you travel from the vmac the likelihood that you see the team a certain way changes.

      I’ve long runinated on something Adam Nathan said in passing on a post game pod but if your relationship with the team is purely watching and not blue Friday, etc, you expect different things from that experience.

      • Eric

        100% agree about views changed based on the proximity to the VMAC. I moved away from Seattle to the NE and hearing co-workers talk about the Seahawks has made my lifelong fandom that much stronger. Also, I *believe* I have a much more balanced view of Seattle teams because I am not inundated with effusive praise or doom and gloom every day.

        • Peter

          I’m not as far away as you but I watched the superbowl with my awesome wife and my dogs in CO and was never happier.

          I live in ducks, beaver country now and still love the team but my fandom has definitely changed from when I lived walking distance to Lumen and was in that post holmgren bubble where we just needed one more thing to go right and we’d be back in it in no time.

          Now I *think* I can see the great players and the pretty big shortcomings much better.

          • LouCityHawk

            This is an interesting point because I moved away from the PNW in the early 90s and wasn’t from there originally.

            I’ve lived in the Midwest since, but worked all over.

            Thinking about it, you definitely become less rah rah because you are around a lot of other blind Fandom – so their allegiance makes you reflexively more critical of your own team.

            • Peter

              Just remember in ’06, ’07 reading the Seattle PI and talking with my friends at our local pub about how if this, that,or the other thing just got a little bit better…..

              Reminds me painfully of now when people comment on YouTube “imagine Geno with a top five oline…” I can imagine it. It would be great. I can also see how hard that is going to field alonf with the top 10 defense you are also dreaming of in one or two seasons.

      • LouCityHawk

        It’s not like other people do, and there are a lot of people who just seem to be what I’d consider normal…

        Like some content, don’t like other content…

        Some act like Rob personally targeted them at work, or pulled the chair out while their grandma was sitting down.

        And it isn’t that he ‘doesn’t allow dissent’ or ‘curates comments’ or ‘blocks people’ or whatever…

        I don’t think anyone in life has ever gotten under my skin the way Rob has with others.

        • Rob Staton

          People on other sites talk about this place all the time

          I’m not even sure they realise they’re doing it as much as they are

          Let them. We’ll talk about the Seahawks & football

      • Big Mike

        I don’t go to .net

        Wise choice

        • Peter

          Though I’m grateful to .net for Rob’s comments in a dusty back corner about the draft. It brought me here.

          • Rob Staton

            Those were the days

      • Elmer

        Rob isn’t trying to be contrarian or trying to stir up trouble. He says what he believes in a well reasoned and eloquent way. If some people choose to disagree or to be offended, that’s not on Rob.

      • penguins4all

        Time will tell. I suspect you are way off beam and JS knows he has a good quarterback at a cheap price. The only way he’d roll with Lock as the starter for a season is if his job is utterly, absolutely guaranteed however badly the next season goes.

        Like I say, time will tell.

        • Rob Staton

          So you’re just going to ignore all the indicators that are out there?

      • Adam Nathan

        Delighted I’ve said something that’s stuck! Really think it’s a big thing with how you follow the team.

        For me it is (sadly) a Sunday venture, whereas for others it’s a 7 days a week experience, where you can sometimes park the bad stuff that happens on game day because there’s something in the community to look forward to.

        • bk26

          Adam, what do you guys have your show on to listen to?

          I need more wise words of wisdom in these changing times hahaha.

          • Adam Nathan

            It’s on any podcast provider, podbean, apple, Spotify etc. The Pedestrian Podcast-we don’t spin quite as much at the moment, but there’s a good back catalogue of player interviews over the last few years that are worth checking out, and haven’t aged too much!

  5. McZ

    I think, NFL scouts are generally missing the point in QBs, considering the info they seem to process.

    As the season began, I wondered if Aidan O’Connell will take over at LV and prove to be solid. It’s exactly what happened.

    After the Brock Purdy affair, which nearly cost Cowherd his superfluous job, O’Connell was a player taking his team on his shoulders. The 2022 Boilermakers were a threat, even to vastly superior teams.

    It is this type of player who prevails in the NFL. And the list is stunning. Mahomes, Wilson, Allen are all belonging in this category. Herbert as well, to a certain degree.

    Even in 2023, Stroud was that kinda player, and Young wasn’t.

    So, Penix took a team with a mediocre defense on his back. If we consider this to be a lot of weight leading to inconsistencies, we should accept that. He could end up being a tremendous player at the next level.
    Same goes for Nix, who had a bunch of no names at receiver, was constrained by his system and IMO still outplayed Penix in both games.

    If we get either of them, we should be happy. I wonder, if they last into late round 1. Teams are not dumb, and the Seahawks have done quite well simply taking the guy they want at their original position. Don’t get cute. Take the player you like.

    That said, if we are taking a late round flyer, Sam Hartman could be the guy. Reminds me a lot on Minshew.

    • BK26

      I don’t know if we can call O’Connell solid. In the end, he was the only option to start. And 12 td’s to 7 int’s in 11 games isn’t good. They are probably going to draft someone this year with a much higher ceiling. He just isn’t very physically talented. Yes he is a very smart quarterback. But he screams “10 year backup.

      O’Connell did run the team at Purdue. But Brohm was a pretty successful coach with a very good offense. And he had talent around him (thank you Charlie Jones). Purdy never carried his teams in college, and hasn’t in the NFL either.

      Neither Purdy or O’Connell are remotely comparable to Mahomes, Stroud, Allen, or Herbert in any talent facet. Same with Hartman (but as a 5th rounder or later, eh go ahead; better than nothing). Young was on an atrocious team and is getting crucified for it.

      Penix had the best offensive talent in college football, Nix ran the the system-oriented offense in college football. They are extremely talented and could be terrific in the NFL. You could also make an argument that their circumstances in college were crutches for them that masked some serious issues. I don’t want either in the first round. Or maybe until the late second, depending on what picks we are able to get.

      Team will do their due diligence, but the qb’s this year (other than one awesomely last-named SEC qb) will need a few years to prove themselves. They’ll all need some work immediately.

      • Peter

        Lost on some fans in Rob’s mocks or otherwise when they say so and “SuCkS!!!!”

        Is if you are not drafting Andrew Luck they all suck if you want to be critical and search for flaws. Which you should do.

        Rob just did two mocks for YouTube and is a penix hater for taking him round one and then is “wasting,” a pick in Rattler in the late third/fourth range. In a range where a lot of players and picks go to die.

        Every single qb in this class I can find fault. All of them from Williams all the way out to the Hartman, tua’s brother types.

        The three I like the most have glaring holes.

    • Ben Fort Worth

      Bo Nix had Troy Franklin to throw to. Border line 1st round WR in my opinion. Will probably go in the 2nd. Hardly a no name. A little light, but reminds some of Devonta Smith.

  6. LouCityHawk

    So, Penix took a team with a mediocre defense on his back…

    Right up and until that point I thought you were making a case for Spencer Rattler.

    The name you’re probably looking for is probably Travis.

    The opposite of the opposite of what you’re looking for is Gerry Bohanon (on my watch list in the 7th)

    Devin Leary would be my pick if you are looking for a Brock Purdy clone.

    • LouCityHawk

      meant as reply to McZ

    • Michael Hasslinger

      I’ll admit Leary intrigues. His days at NCSU were really fun. His OC is now the OC at Tampa.

      Has similar drawback to Purdy in not able to easily stretch the field with his arm.

      BUT… he is smart as hell, a gamer, and well schooled.

      I’d love a flyer on a Seattle Purdy.

      • Rob Staton

        I think without Kyle calling the offense, he wouldn’t have any shot

        • MMjohns195

          it’s the one thing i think people can’t seem to understand, kyle makes the QBs alot better than they have any right being: Mullens, Bethard, Garrappolo, and now Purdy. It also makes you wonder how bad lance was that even shannahan couldn’t elevate him

  7. Trevor

    Rob have you cooled on Spencer Rattlet since the Senior Bowl? I still really like him as an option in Rd #3 and could very well see the Hawks taking a flier on home there particularly if they could pick up a 3rd or 4th trading Geno.

    Also if the QBs they like are gone by pick 16 could trading Geno and then trading for Feilds be an option if they could get him for say a 3rd or 4th? Lock and Feilds competing for starting spot and draft a guy like Pratt on day 3 to try and develop?

    • BK26

      People already knock Schneider for using 2 second round picks on running backs. They probably shouldn’t put much more investment in the position.

    • Rob Staton

      I haven’t cooled on him

      I’ve been very consistent. His range is varied. There’s natural talent, he overcame a lot. He isn’t very big and he has questions to answer from the Oklahoma days. He’s better than the media have portrayed

  8. Trevor

    The two free agents I hope the Hawks target are both from the Bengals so Mike Mcdobald should know them well.

    DJ Reader if he is healthy is exactly the type of DT this team needs and has lacked the last 4-5 years. A big, tough and nasty run stuffer. He should be priority #1 after big cat IMO.

    Jonah Williams is the other guy for all the reasons Rob pointed out in his podcast with Jeff Simmons. He would be ideal insurance for Abe and a quality athletic Guard that excels in pass pro if Abe is healthy.

    If the Hawks could add these two guys and Big Cat before the draft it would free them up to do whatever they wanted and not need to plug holes.

    • Peter

      I like reader. Will say there’s a growing list of dlinemen I like in this draft that I’d still like to tap into. It often takes dlinemen from top five pick to the end if the draft a few years to really be rolling so I think some old Dawgs to start with a young gun or two rotated in would be my preference.

      Still very intrigued as to what they do about LB’s come free agency. I’m pretty down on the LB’s as a whole in this draft and I’m hoping they don’t have to press to hard in the draft at that position.

  9. Eduardo

    Good intel and assumptions Rob. Thought the same thing about Lock in Grubb’s conference. I mean, he’s giving an FA QB he’s never coached fatherly advice while Geno get’s “redheaded step-child” love? hmm….

    There are stats out there to prop up or tear down most QBs in this draft. My main concern on Penix stat-wise was the issue with route progression once his first read is taken off the field(as he goes from that Husky OL to a more pedestrian NFL one). Interested to see how Grubb addresses this, as he himself will be going through his own learning curves as a first year NFL OC trying to translate his scheme onto the big stage.

    P.S. You can have all the analytics go your way, but I would place scrambling up there. You can reach contract escalator money by hitting all the data driven incentives you want, but Mahome’s just scrambled his butt into a 3rd SB ring while having to march downfield hitting his 2/3rd reads or take off running.



    • Seattle Person

      This is one part of Penix’s game that I want to see more of. That’s the ability to create.

  10. Peter

    Two qb thoughts on a Sunday morning.

    1. Whether Geno stays, goes, is traded for future firsts ( plural) or a single fourth no one has ever explained to me why after a great year (2022) beyond the loosest of connections to Tampa the entire league forever in love with revolving qbs with no real reason back into starting gigs decided to pass on Geno.

    Cha has brought it up a few times but locally ( kj, 710, others) were fairly confident he’d get a franchise tag. When in reality he got a plus level prove it deal after, frankly, proving it.

    2. Michael Penix. I appreciate every word Rob has written pro him and the mildest con him. He’s a long tenured starter who played in the title game and after the Texas game folks were saying he should go top 10.

    He’s not an unknown prospect. He’s not some secret find. This is not 2011 where draft world was fringe sites like Rob’s and the rest was Mel kipper level articles. Prospects and information are almost to the point of dizzying in how much info is there.

    All that said. I can not find anywhere that is not attached to Seahawks land where Penix is the pick at #16 and only very, very rarely do I see him in the first round.

  11. Peter

    And a WR note. Early days I was a fan of Legette. Watching Rattler you can not miss Legette.

    I’m pretty meh about him now. He started the senior bowl with clunky hands and turns out he’s not DK’s size. He’s not as tall, long, or has the same hand size. Unless he burns the track down at the 40yd dash I’m not sure any more.

    • Seattle Person

      Legette would be a huge downgrade as of right now. Plus why do we need to replace DK? He’s young and still very good.

      • Peter

        I’m not advocating a DK replacement. I think a lot of us saw DK in Legette and so far he’s not.

        • Seattle Person

          My bad. I didn’t mea to direct it at you. Some are suggesting this though.

          • Peter

            No worries at all. I was carrying over from the prior thread and someone mentioned DK’s replacement.

  12. Clayton Russell

    Rob, those haters have been hating for years. I’ve been following the channel going back to the Alshon Jeffery draft days (maybe longer) and continue to think everything is balanced in your approach on players. Ignore the nonsense and carry-on!

    I like Penix and appreciated everything he did at UW (my favorite college team going back to the Warren Moon days and have never even lived in the state of WA) however his injuries scare me big time. I cannot fathom, how I would feel if the Seahawks drafted him in the first or in the second and then in the near future 1 hit or a series of hits takes him out (career ending) It is one thing if he was injury free going into his NFL career but knowing his history is still a big red flag for me.

    With that in mind, I’m still in favor of drafting him, if he were to last late in the 3rd or further down (due to the digging NFL teams will do at the combine) on his injury history.

    As far as QBs in general, Daniels, May and Williams will most likely be gone whenever we pick barring a trade up which totally goes against acquiring more picks in the meat of this draft. That said, I am growing on McCarthy to some extent, can see Nix in a SEA uniform especially if our coaches are good teachers and can assist him in reading defenses better, and lastly Spencer Rattler. Even though Rattler lacks the ideal height, I think he has grown enough and has shown he can already play within an NFL style offense. Many of the others will have to learn how to take snaps from center, something they did not do very much in college.

    I think my biggest dilemma as a fan is: at what spot do we actually draft a qb. Is the middle of the second a spot where we will still have options (McCarthy, Nix, Rattler, Penix) and if they did draft for instance Rattler at 59, how much whining do you think we would hear?

    Keep up the great work, and plan on the Senior Bowl next year.

    • Seattle Person

      It’s going to be interesting how they approach this. I still think they are setting the stages for a rookie QB and probably Drew Lock as the bridge.

      I’m down with most of the QBs. I’ve stated my case for McCarthy because the more I thought about it — it makes sense to me.

    • Peter

      Trading down once to the mid twenties as of now has me thinking Nix, Rattler, Penix are still available.

      Mccarthy I think will be gone.

      Waiting to the middle late second I think it’s Rattler and then….x…..

      That’s just the pre combine thoughts I have.

    • Rob Staton

      Thanks Clayton!

      The dream of making a Senior Bowl one day lives on — the problem I’ll always have is my daughter’s birthday being the 30th January meaning I’d have to miss it to get out there

      • Peter

        Not to worry. One day the Superbowl will be strung out all the way til around Feb 21.

      • Gary

        Bring her!

      • 805Hawk

        Sounds like a great birthday trip!

        • RomeoA57

          Forget taking kids to a Disney Park, Manhattan. Sunny Beaches, or a Ski Resort, all kids would rather spend their birthday in Mobile Alabama.

          • Palatypus

            Take them to Pensacola Beach.

  13. Jackson

    The Cult of Geno has gotten completely insufferable online.

    If you do anything except embrace he’s the clear option at quarterback in Seattle for both the short- and long-term, they’re all over you.

    “Just get him an offensive line” they parrot, followed by assertions that that’s all that is keeping him from reach elite QB status.

    I like Geno! His surprising play in 2022 was genuinely enjoyable to experience. But he’s not the quarterback of the future. He’s a mid-tier QB who has been paid in a league where you either need an expensive, but elite option or a quality player on a rookie deal.

    • Peter

      Meanwhile Burrow can get to the superbowl with a terrible oline

  14. Daniel

    I believe the Seahawks are open to moving Geno. I think they are likely to draft a QB (though perhaps later than folks expect). I think they’d be glad to keep Lock, even if it means rostering three QBs. Because I also believe there’s a strong case to be made for keeping Geno, particularly for a new coach and GM who will be eager to compete in year one. This has been posted elsewhere:

    – Since 2000, rookie QBs drafted after pick fifteen averaged a QBR of 40.6 in their first season, and 46.4 in their second season.
    – QBs who started fewer than thirty games in their first five years in the league averaged a career QBR of 46.7.
    – Geno Smith had a QBR of 62.8 in 2022 and 59.5 last year.

    Ok to quibble with QBR and maybe you like Lock more than the rest of his cohort, or you like Geno less than his production over the last couple years. And even so, he’s your best bet to compete in 2024, which I think will be important to the folks coming in.

    • geoff u

      Russel Wilson had a QBR of 74.8 and 67.2 in his first two years…

  15. Blitzy the Clown

    I’ve noticed recently that I’m being called a ‘Michael Penix Jr hater’ despite mocking him to the Seahawks in my only two full projections so far. It’s weird

    I’ve been as lukewarm on Penix as anyone. I’m concerned about his inconsistency, trouble with pressure, inexperience for the pros due to a QB friendly system, and injury history.

    But I’m also pragmatic, and there are a number of strong indicators of the Seahawks’ potential interest in him, as has been well laid out in your article. I’ve adjusted my perception of him based on his positive attributes, including plus athleticism (poor scrambling notwithstanding), and while I would be disappointed in him at 16 or even in the 20s, I quite like him in R2. In several mocks on sportskeeda, he’s been available in the last third of Round Two, and I took him (59-63 range) several times.

    You correctly point out his touch and accuracy on some throws. I wonder how you compare him to CJ Stroud, who to me has the best arm in terms of touch and accuracy, of any QB prospect in recent memory?

    • Rob Staton

      Stroud’s mid/deep level touch was a thing of beauty. It had to be seen to be believed. Penix doesn’t have that aspect to the level of Stroud but he is throwing to areas, dropping balls into windows, that most QB’s can’t even try

  16. cha

    I was recently in a discussion about Geno and the Seahawks. Two things were generally agreed on:

    -The Schefter tweet was a clear invitation to make a trade offer

    -John Schneider’s comments at his first press conference clearly showed he wasn’t as enamored with Geno as Pete Carroll was

    That was as close as we got to rationalism about Geno. The majority of the group said ‘you don’t trade a top-10 QB’ and ‘the fans have attacked Geno every time he makes a mistake, it’s not fair’ and ‘Geno would be great if you fixed the defense, fixed the OL and got better coaching.’

    One even said drafting Penix at 24 is too late, and then quickly advocated for extending 34-yo Geno.

    • 805Hawk

      You obviously “don’t know ball.”

      • Rob Staton

        If only we could all know ball

    • Fudwamper

      I want to openly wonder, if Pete’s love of Geno kept the hawks from drafting Levis. I would feel real good with Will just getting to compete for a starting job this year, letting Geno go and still drafting a qb mid round.

    • geoff u

      “You don’t trade a top 10 qb,” presumably they were against the Russell Wilson trade too then?

  17. Unio

    I like the idea of drafting a promising QBoTF, but I go round and round in my head about whether the Seahawks are truly thinking of trading Geno or keeping him. They do appear to be inviting inquiries from other teams, as Rob has stated. Yet I have trouble seeing a QB they might target who will be available at #16. QBs (can) get drafted much higher than their overall ranking simply by virtue of the importance of that position. It happens every year. This year, Penix is ranked #20 by PFF and #31 by CBS, while JJ is ranked #57 by PFF and #32 by CBS. Nix is #22 and #42, respectively (those are just two samplings, I’m sure there are others who rank them differently). There are at least 7 teams who draft before us who have a good reason to draft a QB: CHI, WA, NE, ATL, DEN, LV, and MINN. Some of those needs might be filled via veterans like Cousins, Wilson, Fields, Minshew or even Lock. It seems to me that all the top 6 QB draft prospects could easily be gone before we select in Rd1. It’s hard for me to see how Seattle could get even one of the second-tier QBs without trading up.

    • Rob Staton

      I think only four QB’s will go in round one and they will have an opportunity to trade down and get one

  18. Forrest

    I think we should keep an eye on Joe Milton III! John Schneider likes mobile QBs with big arms and there’s some Josh Allen to his game (and early Donovan McNabb, Dante Culpepper, etc.). He could be someone available later on in the draft to sit and develop.

    • Seattle Person

      Honestly, Joe Milton is undraftable.

      • Dustin

        Some of his passes look like he’s suffering from Steve sax disease.

      • Unio

        Agree. I could see Rattler, Travis or Pratt, in a later round but not Milton.

    • bk26

      I’d compare him closer to an early Napoleonic cannon: sure you can get the cannon ball clear out there, but aiming doesn’t happen.

      I guess we could run 3 go routes out of a trips formation and hope he gets it to that side of the field.

      He’s lost his starting job at two schools to less-talented players. He’ll probably go undrafted, as he should.

    • Rob Staton

      He’s not a NFL QB

  19. cha

    A lot of Geno is discussion is just misdirection and putting everyone in a big bucket. You don’t fawn over Geno, you’re a hater. Black and white. You’re with us or against us.

    Corbin Smith the other day, retweeting the hiring of the new QB coach said “Geno Smith’s new QB coach is…” and got jumped by half of twitter that no, it’s the Seahawks QB coach. Technically true.

    But then Smith screenshot some of the replies and said ‘yeah right don’t tell me there aren’t fans who want Geno gone’

    Problem is, the great majority of the replies he screenshot were just factual ones. ‘for the Seahawks QB group as a whole, not just Geno’ that type of thing.

    Smith completely missed the point, and displayed a zealous oversensitivity to Geno criticism all at once.

    If anything, you would think local reporters would have learned a valuable lesson from the RW saga. Smoke billowing out of the VMAC and reporters consistently ignoring it and then being made to eat their words.

    • Rob Staton

      I don’t get what’s going on with Corbin and this Geno stuff

      He’s lost the plot

    • bmseattle

      I saw that tweet as well, cha.
      Smith thought he was making a point, but his “evidence” didn’t back it up at all.
      Clearly, he was baiting, and hoping for responses that proved there was a legion of “Geno haters”.
      He then just posted the factual responses and pretended they made his point.
      Very odd.

      He also seems to think that people making predictions that Geno will be gone, is the same thing as those people *hoping* he’ll be gone.

    • 805Hawk

      Yep. I called him out on his “semantics” statement on that post. I can’t decide if he’s bating for engagement or just that emotionally invested in Geno.

      • bmseattle

        I was actually surprised to see that Corbin is active on twitter (X).
        Didn’t he make a big deal about leaving the platform a couple of months ago, for moral reasons?
        He made a pretty big deal about it.

        • Rob Staton

          I remember that

      • BK26

        He has to believe it. Him baiting a discussion to debate it…he’s not a debater.

        He’s a reporter. That’s about all he needs to worry on. He was on Dan Vien’s show earlier this week and when asked the “Geno haters,” he was biting his tongue to not say what he wanted to.

  20. RomeoA57

    On another site recently, I argued that Geno Smith may not have much trade value as it appeared that no other teams were interested in him this past offseason. I was told that I needed to show Geno more “Respect”. This reply took me aback, so it seems that if we say anything that may not be positive about a player, we are being disrepectful to that player’s fans? So a “Hater” is a just person who is writing unfllattering information about someone or something in an attmpt to disrespect random fans of that person or thing online? I am too old to understand this line of thinking,

    • Joseph

      That’s because they’re glorifying something that is mediocre they deluded themselves into think it’s something spectacular. These are probably the same people glorifying Pete’s bullshit the past 5-6 years. Thats what makes Seattle fans especially most Seahawks have low IQ. They look at something that’s slightly above average and worship it. I’m seeing that with Mariner fans.

    • Big Mike

      I am too old to understand this line of thinking

      I’m too old to care
      I mean I’m fine with reasonable discourse. That stuff isn’t reasonable.

  21. STTBM

    Rob, great job lately–as usual–putting out content. There’s no other Seahawks related site worth reading.

    Cha–Didnt have a chance to comment, but excellent articles, especially the Cap craziness. Thank you.

    Online and on FAcEboOk, the tide is turning–many more folks coming around to the fact that Wagner is done, and Adams is gone, and Geno is trade bait. But there’s still the nuts who insist Wags should be brought back at the same pay, Geno is The Man, and Allen and JS are jerks for not just letting Carrol coach his contract out…And there are a lot more than there should be.

    I was told GTFO because Wags made All Pro so no matter what he’s awesome and my points about his lost speed and inability to cover are moot. Sigh….

    And Penix people are silly. Either he’s the new Mahomes or he’s a bust waiting to happen. I like the kid, watched a few games, but not in depth. I’d be thrilled if Seattle drafts him, because that will show they believe in him. I’d be pleased to see Rattler get a shot too. One, both, or neither may turn out, but they seem worth a shot to me. I see traits you can’t teach with both, flaws that can be coached out as well.

    I’m looking forward to the draft more than I have in seven years. Wish they hadn’t burned the second to get Williams, but hopeful we can resign him. I too am expecting a trade down or two, and I doubt a trade up at all, unless it’s to get a QB.

    In past years, when draft was thin and/or our roster was good, I advocated for Seattle to trade up, ensure they get 3 guys they know will contribute in the draft. Hindsight says that would have been better most years, as our many picks weren’t hitting. But this year’s draft seems good through the third, then not so much, and we have a lot of holes.

    • bk26

      Saw someone ealier say that any “Penix to Mahomes comparison talk” comes from this site and comment section. This is probably the last place to see that.

      I laughed a little and then felt bad for them. Just like Rob’s articles, you have to actually read the stuff otherwise you look like someone who gets confused by automatic doors.

      • Ben Fort Worth

        Caleb Williams is the closest thing I’ve seen to Pat Mahomes 2.0.

    • cha


  22. geoff u

    I’m just not sure Penix’s special arm is enough to overcome his deficencies. A) How he deals with pressure. He’s most likely going to crumble, teams will know this, and he’s going to be under a lot of it in the NFL. Couple that with B) Injury history and the impact those injuries may have on his future, and the fact that teams will be coming after him often — knowing he’s not good under pressure. These are pretty big negatives for me.

    At some point in the draft, he’s worth the throw of the dice, just not sure when. And certainly Grub will have all the information in the world on him, know one will know Penix better than the Seahawks, so if we pass or take him it’s for a good reason. For me though, if Nix or Rattler were still on the board, I’m more tempted to take either of them and their flaws. Nix I lm still uncertain on, need to see more, still a big wild card. Maybe his pro day will bring answers.

    • Rob Staton

      But some of his best throws this year were under pressure in the pocket — and while the injury history warrants research by all teams he’s just played two full seasons at UW

      • Tacmoe

        In most cases I think it’s hard to gauge injury concerns for players and down grade them. You never know when injuries will occur — they’re impossible to predict.
        One example discussed on this site was Seattle drafting a healthy RB Penny rather than RB Chubb who had lots of injury concerns coming out of college. It turned out Penny could never get his career started due to injuries while Chubb has had many all-pro seasons.

  23. hawksfan1201

    The poor completion % while scrambling and poor OT% on 3rd and long tells me he struggles when things aren’t perfect, which was always the concern with a guy who had elite WR and OL. I think despite the arm Penix has huge bust potential–probably the most boom/bust QB prospect in this class. I personally don’t want the Hawks to roll those dice.

    • Rob Staton

      He makes plenty of excellent throws though when things aren’t perfect and the areas where he excels are not ‘perfect’ scenarios either

  24. geoff u

    And they were great throws, can’t deny that. I’m fine with taking a chance on any of these quarterbacks (not named JJ). They all have flaws, if they didn’t they wouldn’t be in range. My greatest fear is we don’t take a chance on any one of them and continue with Geno and Lock…

    • geoff u

      Meant as a reply to above…

  25. Chase Cash

    I forgot which press conference or interview he said it, but Mike McDonald said he wants to be a team that’s physical. He wants an offense that is good at running the ball and effective on play action. When asked about playing aggressive or safe he said every decision is a calculated risk.

    It seems like Penix would be an awesome fit in that aspect. He’s a great deep ball thrower and can make incredibly explosive plays happen. Already has the familiarity with Grubb. He seems like the perfect quarterback to complement an offense with a strong run game. And if the strong run game is what McDonald wants, then in my opinion it makes a ton of sense.

    • Ben Fort Worth

      Give me Jackson Powers-Johnson, Chop, or Verse at 16 all day. Load up on the trenches!

  26. Alex Potts

    The Penix to Seattle connection feels as inevitable as Shaquem Griffin to Seattle was.

    Penix range of interested teams will be limited. I doubt any teams not ready to start him right away will draft him due to his age. You aren’t spending high draft capital to let him sit behind an established starter only to start him when he’s 25-26 years old.

    He also is unlikely to be high on other teams boards due to injury.

    I think it’s Seattle, Las Vegas, Pittsburgh and Atlanta as teams that seem to fit. Once free agency shakes out and Russell Wilson, Justin Fields, and maybe even Geno Smith have found teams, it may end up as even less teams.

    • Troy

      Bo Nix was born Feb 25, 2000.
      Michael Penix Jr. as born May 8, 2000.
      Jayden Daniels was born Dec 18, 2000.

      I get the injury concern, but age??

      • BK26

        Rattler is the same age too.

      • Alex Potts

        Bo Nix is another that I don’t see as being drafted to sit.

        These guys don’t need time to develop.

        The age knock is a real one regardless of the covid year thing. Analytical teams will prefer JJ McCarthy or Drake Maye. It’s pretty well known that juniors get pushed up the board and that if you perform well early in your college career that is a better indicator of NFL success.

        Rattler will not be drafted to start but could become a starter

        • bk26

          See, I think Rattler is the only one that could be ready (just my opinion), other than Caleb Williams. I think Penix will be behind because of Washington’s offense doing so much heavy lifting.

          Nix could be. They might have to bare-bones it a bit since it won’t be what Oregon was (once again, where it was almost a fail-safe offense).

          Rattler was thrown out there and made to do it all himself. Maye, not fully sure. Need to watch more of him. Williams, obviously will start and be ready. McCarthy….no.

          • Alex Potts

            Rattler is talented but he takes far too many sacks. He is the opposite of Penix in that case. He has a lot of negative plays where he could just check it down or throw it away.

            I know his O-line is NOT good, but alot of those sacks were on him imo. He will try and scramble out of it and he just doesn’t have good enough elusiveness.

            You have to put some blame on the QB for sacks. Is he not sliding the protection correctly? Is he not processing fast enough to deliver the ball? Is he not taking the check-down? Is he trying to play hero ball and scramble out of it?

            He’s also small (short). When there is pressure in his face he cannot see over the defense, deliver a ball consistently and usually drops to scramble and takes a sack.

            This is a QB I like too, but I’d personally be shocked if he can come in and start right away. I think he’s an inconsistent player at this point, albeit a very talented one.

    • Peter

      Doesn’t feel inevitable to me. Pete and Jim didn’t draft players from their respective schools.

  27. Cysco

    For me, Penix’s viability as a NFL prospect depends on whether his lack of running/escape ability was by design or if it’s a legit limitation to his game.

    I think it is feasible that he was told to stick to the system and not put the ball or himself in harms way. But I just don’t know. If only we had someone on the coaching staff that could answer that question.

  28. Gaux Hawks

    …why did we pass on will levis !?

    • Cysco

      My guess is because Pete didn’t want us to draft a QB

    • bmseattle

      I know…
      If we are simply at the point of taking a shot on a young QB with tools to develop, Levis seemed perfect.
      Especially when it became clear that it wasn’t going to take a top pick for him.
      Maybe it was Pete?
      There were also rumors that Levis didn’t interview well, along with rumors that one of the top QB prospects blew off JS when he initially met him.
      I suppose that could have played into it.
      But still, there was value in drafting him late in the 1st.

    • Fudwamper

      I guess this might be one of those straws that lead to John being retained and Pete being let go. Pure speculation. I just can’t envision a person who is in charge of roster building not being prepared for this scenario.

  29. Parallax

    Since finding a home here at Seahawks Draft Blog, I’ve been in agreement with you, Rob, most of the time. I’ve enjoyed the fact that when I’m not, it’s totally cool. I appreciate your insights and I equally appreciate the way you run this blog, making sure it’s a place where everyone gets to have a voice.

    I’m glad you’ve been pointing out the non-verbals around Geno. It all makes sense. Absent your insights, I would have been like the many who have concluded he’s a shoe-in to start in 2024. That’s not my preferred outcome but I’ll go with it should things fall that way. I remain unconvinced they’ll find a trade partner with Geno slated to make over $30M in 2024. But I really hope I’m wrong.

    The only major place where you and I have not seen eye to eye is around Drew Lock. You’ve been unimpressed enough to suggest he’ll likely never be a decent starter. I don’t think his chances are great but I’d like to see him get a real opportunity. I don’t think he’s gotten one here in Seattle. When he’s played, I’ve seen “what he could become” and I like it. Much as he wasn’t impressive through most of the Eagles game, I found him impressive a good chunk of the time against San Francisco, with ease and mobility in the pocket and a lot of well timed and well placed passes. Obviously, I was disappointed by the two interceptions in the fourth quarter but I thought Lock largely kept us in that game.

    Unlike the one drive against the Giants, this came against a really good team, on the road. So it makes sense to me that Schneider, Macdonald and Grubb may be open to seeing what they can do with him. In my ideal world, we trade Geno for something of value, and go with Lock plus a rookie acquired in the third or fourth round after trading down enough to obtain some value in the trenches. I’ve liked your mocks thus far. Good use of our limited draft capital to obtain real value. Not sexy but I think there’s a good chance your picks would set things up well for 2025 and beyond.

    • Gross MaToast

      This seems likely to me, as well. Obviously JS values the traits Lock brings and those traits somewhat withered on the vine under Pete, Shane Norton Jr, and Vic Fangio. Since being drafted, Lock’s complement of offensive coaches is bereft of top-tier tutelage that would’ve better situated his skill set in a dynamic offense. Maybe he’s a slightly less-good version of Geno at 1/3 the price. In a rebuild, that’s acceptable.

      If they trade Geno, I look forward to the, “You can’t get rid of Lock” takes directed at the “Lock-Haters” this time next year.

      • Parallax

        So far, we seem to mostly get “just let Lock go” comments. I wouldn’t call that pejorative. I certainly not label it hate speech. I just don’t get why there are so many who have made their mind up about the guy. (Rob included.) I’d really like to see what Grubb and the rest of this staff can do with him.

        Wouldn’t it be ironic if it turns out we already have our franchise guy on the roster? I’m not saying it will happen, or even that it’s likely. If anything, I’d say it’s unlikely (as in less than 20%). But why not give this group of coaches a chance with him. If, after a year with this staff, he gets cut, I’ll be ready to move on.

    • jpn

      I think you may be partially wrong in that I don’t think the acquiring team would have to pay Geno $30M in 2024. They’d only pay the part that wasn’t already paid as part of his original signing bonus. And they could cut him after the season with no cap hit.

      Isn’t that going to be about $18M? And the Hawks can pay some of that to sweeten the deal, but even at $18M it’s not terribly in excess of what he’s worth. Rob wrote that the cap savings of a trade would be $13.8M. If a team offered a 3rd or 4th, or something even better in 2025, if the Hawks would take on another $5-$7M of Geno’s salary, it could be a nice win-win.

      Does anyone know how much the acquiring team would pay Geno in 2024 if he were traded today without, say, converting more salary to bonus?

      • Parallax

        They’d inherit his contract. So the $13.8M that’s now guaranteed for 2024 plus his $9.6M roster bonus that comes due in mid-March. If my numbers are right, that comes to $23.4M. And then they would get an option on 2025 because his contract allows for him to be cut with no additional cap hit.

        Given how much teams are paying for veteran QBs these days, I don’t think it’s out of the question that they’ll find a buyer. Assuming a team wants a competent but unspectacular veteran. It’s hard for me to imagine because, if were GM of a team, even one that just seems a competent QB short, I’d not look in his direction. Maybe I’d try to sign Cousins or Mayfield as a free agent, assuming one of them is available. I’d steer clear of Geno, Russ, Jimmy Garoppolo — the ones who don’t pass my eye test.

  30. Anthony

    For as much flak as Daniel Jeremiah gets with his dumb metaphors, his latest MTS podcast was interesting. He described Bo Nix as “getting between a B- to a B+ on a test, what you see is what you’re getting and nothing more.”

    It seems like Nix has already hit his ceiling and will never be a top QB. Is that something to use a first round pick on? DJ also said Penix has fans, but teams are wary of the offense and medicals.

    • Rob Staton

      Seahawks though evidently aren’t wary of the offense…

      • Parallax

        You’ve not had him in the first round of your mocks. I’d be happy if we traded down and got him or Rattler where there’s reasonable value and it doesn’t get in the way of impacting the lines, which really need to be addressed. Overall, though, I’m not a “draft for need” guy. If someone really stands out at a position that’s not of need, I’d say take him and address the needs in another way. Undrafted rookie free agents, good value free agents and trades are all possibilities. Besides, we’re not going to address every weakness in one draft.

      • hawksfan1201

        If you think an offense made a mediocre QB into a Heisman runner up you sign the OC and pass on the QB. Not saying that’s how they feel or what they’ll do but it’s still a distinct possibility

        • Rob Staton

          He isn’t mediocre though

      • Anthony

        Rob, I agree, aside from evaluating the player the biggest challenge is figuring out where Penix will go. JS is on the record of having a high grade on RW and was prepared to select him in the 2nd. But they picked him right in the range where other teams were prepared to select him.

        JS has talked about cliffs in the draft and getting in front of them. Last draft was perfect. JSN was selected at 20 and Baltimore and the Chargers selected receivers right after that.

    • Brodie

      Man, you really hate Bo Nix. I think this is about the 6th time I’ve seen you pop on a thread just to bash him.

      • Peter

        Daniel jeremiah though. I mean dude barely knew who Mahomes was and last year thought a guy I liked was the 8th best player overall in the draft in Keion White.

        Pinch of salt? More like a big bag you pour over your icy driveway.

      • Anthony

        The funny part of this all is that I’m an Oregon fan/alumni! So I’ve watched all the games and have seen him front and center. I just don’t understand all the hype for him just like how I didn’t understand the Malik Willis round 1 hype.

        • Brodie

          That’s hilarious!

          Sometimes we’re our own harshest critics.

  31. Doug

    Just happened to hear this Giant podcast with Tony Pauline about his draft prospect ratings and he his QB insights are interesting. To summarize: JJ McCarthy most overrated, Penix overrated/risk due to age & injury, and a sleeper underrated pick that will likely go undrafted due to injury/lack of playing time, Ben Bennet (NW), who Tony says has best vertical arm in the draft. Sounds like he might be worth a UDFA or late 7th rounder longshot flier to me. I was actually trying to find a different podcast Tony did awhile back that I heard where he was asked for his most underrated QB and he said that that time (a couple weeks before Senior Bowl): Joe Milton. Couldn’t find that one but here’s the Giants one in case you’re curious:

  32. samprassultanofswat

    Rob: Do you think Penix injury history has anything to do with his low completion percentage on third down? Third down is where J.J. McCarthy makes his money. Huge advantage over Penix. However, you cannot deny Micheal Penix Jr.’s arm talent. Not only his arm talent but his ability to connect on the deep throws. Penix is pretty amazing on all deep throws. But it seems like the deep corner is his specialty. Now Penix does seem to be Brady like in the pocket where he can avoid the rush. But Brady is more accurate when he is avoiding the rush and connecting down field.

    Having a rookie starter such Penix, Bo Nix, J.J. McCarthy, or even Spencer Rattler saves you TONs of salary cap space. Which cannot be overstated when you are trying to fill out your remaining roster. Remember Seattle won their only Super Bowl on Russell Wilson’s rookie contract. They also got to the Super Bowl the next year on Russell Wilson’s rookie deal. The Seahawks have not been back to the big dance once they were forced to pay Wilson a legitimate veteran QB salary.

    Between Penix, Nix, McCarthy and Rattler my first choice is Penix. However, you cannot ignore what Bo Nix did his final year at Oregon. Granted Nix was surrounded by an outstanding roster. Nix did throw for 45tds and only had 3 picks. Even when you consider the talent he had at Oregon those numbers are phenomenal. There are times when Geno Smith had 2 or 3 turnover worthy plays in one game. Nix had only three picks the entire season.

    I think John Schneider understands how many times Geno Smith made a play that was turnover worthy. Geno Smith is a very good QB. But on occasion his decision making is clearly lacking. In the middle part of the season Geno Smith was totally paranoid of making a turnover. And he would either take a sack or rush his throw. Those decisions are almost as bad as a pick. Because they force you to punt. Those decisions kill drives. His decision making did improve later in the season. But, nevertheless Geno Smith does NOT get an A for his ability to make decisions.

    Speaking of handing out grades. You have to give John Schneider and company an A or A+ on their coaching hires. Not too many of the old guard such as Greg Roman, Marty Mornhinweg etc. etc. have been hired. Many of these coaches are in the 40s but event still they have 10+ plus years of experience. And in most cases if not all they have coached more than one position. For example, Charles London he is 48 years old. He has been a running back coach, offensive quality control coach, offensive assistant, and also a Quarterback coach. When you have coached multiple positions you tend to see a bigger picture. This is also an advantage when you play multiple positions on the field. Take Richard Sherman. Before he was a cornerback he played wide-receiver. No doubt playing wide-receiver gave Richard Sherman an advantage covering receivers. With that said John Schneider was very fortunate to hire Leslie Frazier. Michael MacDonald is going lean on heavily on Leslie Frazier’s experience. At least for the 1st year or so. Going from defensive coordinator is a totally different cat than being a head coach. Having Leslie Frazier is going to be invaluable to Mike MacDonald.

    As I mention . I am totally happy with the coaching hires. There is little doubt John Schneider and the boys will hit pay dirt in free agency and find more than a few gold nuggets in the up coming NFL draft.

    One cannot say enough good things about Pete Carroll. But it was time for a change. His message was becoming stale and falling on deaf ears. Opposing offensive coordinators were destroying Pete Carroll’s bend but don’t break defense. Below average QBs looked like hall of famers against Carroll’s pass defense. Time and time again they were picking the Seahawk secondary apart. Richard Sherman, Earl Thomas and Kam Chancellor are long gone. Yes Pete Carroll was the head coach on Seattle’s Super Bowl championship. But it was time for new ideas.

    • Parallax

      I don’t place a lot of trust in metrics. Watched every Penix game with Washington these last two seasons and it seems to me third down accuracy has been great. Can’t tell you how many times Penix hit on third. So often, in fact, that I came to mostly expect it.

      The Huskies weren’t blowing other teams out so there were many of those close calls. If they didn’t hit it on third, they often trusted him to try again on fourth. They picked up a lot of those too.

      Not sure why some of the stats tell a different tale. But that’s not one of my concerns about Penix. I’m more concerned about how his game would come undone when faced with the kind of pass rush he’ll see routinely in the NFL. And the injuries. I love the guy. The arm is awesome. I’d be alright with our taking him but not at 16. Given the risks, I think the third round is where he should go. My guess is he’ll go higher.

    • Peter

      I read this all the time about Nix and the amazing talent he had at Oregon….

      Meanwhile the huskies have nine (!!) Offensive players with combine invites and the ducks have just four offensive players.

  33. Joe

    I tend to take the comments on Grubb more seriously than the implications of a sports writer shefter. Grubb said he looks forward to working with Geno and Lock.

    • Rob Staton

      I think you’re missing the point Joe

    • BK26

      He’s third on the totem pole with qb’s. It will be John’s pick. Not a guy who will be here in 2 years if he does his job well.

    • DK

      Who do you think gave Schedter the information? Why was it worded the way it was? It wasn’t a coincidence, as of now Geno is on the roster, so what was Grubb going to say? Yeah, I can’t wait to bring in new QBs after we trade or cut Geno Smith?

      The Seahawks were letting teams know they are open to trading Geno, like Rob said.

      What is more odd is that Drew Lock is being mentioned and he is a free agent. I’m thinking the main goal is to deal Geno, resign Lock, and grab a QB in rounds 3-5 unless one falls to them.

  34. Mr drucker in hooterville

    Rob, what do we need to do to hear you live on the radio (KJR?) during the draft?

    • Rob Staton

      😂 I don’t know but I’d love to do it

  35. samprassultanofswat

    “Grubb said he looks forward to working with Geno and Lock.”
    That is exactly what Grubb is suppose to say. Didn’t Grubb didn’t introduce himself as Alabama’s OC?

  36. Palatypus

    Hey Adam,

    I think ConfederatFlag#183764938 lives at the end of my block. He has a red pickup truck and always yells at me when I walk my dog and she gets on his lawn.

    • Adam Nathan

      Haha! Send him my best!

  37. JimQ

    WR – (TE?) Johnny Wilson, Florida St. 6’6″ and 237 pounds, 35 2/8″ arm length (puts him third all-time for wide receivers), and his 84 3/8″ wingspan (puts him second all-time for wide receivers). With a standing reach of 8‘-10“, In games, he’s topped out at 21.23 MPH. Also note: 4.42/40, 4.26-SS, 38“-Vert. & 10-5 broad jump. Is this dude a developmental “move TE”? Or perhaps a hybrid receiver role? Seems like some nice measurables for the TE position (if he gained 15+-lbs. of muscle). I see he’s a later round choice on Rob’s big board and may be well worth a later round pick on size/speed & red zone catching radius potential if he beefs up a little.

    • Palatypus

      That’s strange. I misread his arm length earlier, but I checked the Senior Bowl handout and you are correct. I thought he was broad-shouldered and short-armed, Nope. And yes, he was really fast.

    • Alex Potts

      He needs to transition to TE. He’s a big mismatch but obviously you are unsure if he’ll be able to block.

      He may get the Darren Waller treatment and get drafted 6-7th round.

      • Palatypus

        Watching him live in the stadium at the Senior Bowl he reminded me of Joe Jurevicius. I don’t remember Joe ever playing the TE position under Mike Holmgren. I am probably wrong. Special teams?

        According to Wikipedia, Joe’s measurables.

        6’4″ 7/8th, 231 Lbs., 33″ Arms, 9 1/2″ Hands, 4.66 Forty, 1.67 10-Yard Split, 2.74 20-Yard Split, 4.48 20-Yard Shuttle, 7.49 3-Cone, 31.5″ Vertical.

  38. Neil

    Pocket passers are a thing of the past in the NFL. Defensive coordinators today have 10 times the exotic blitz packages of 10 years ago. If they know you don’t throw well on the run they will be all over you. Hoping Penix is not the pick.

    • Alex Potts

      Tom Brady was fine not moving outside the pocket.

      You would need to adjust your offense to Penix’s strengths.

      You need to counter any pressure he might come across with a good screen game. He’s not great outside the pocket… Russell Wilson wasn’t great inside the pocket. There’s more than one way to win.

      I’d rather have someone great inside the pocket.

      His arm will immediately be top 5 in the league. That type of win-condition has to account for something.

      What will JJ McCarthy be top 5 in the league in?

      What will Drake Maye be top 5 in?

      Caleb Williams may have a top 5 arm and top 5 mobility

      Jayden Daniels will be top 5 running QB.

      I want to take a chance on special, and adjust the offense to highlight those strengths and mask his deficiencies

      • SeattleLifer

        Tom Brady was greatly helped by a combination of an o-line that was both good and was afforded great leeway in holding by the refs over the years, not to mention a quick release and many short passes per game.

        Imo the modern game is quite tilted towards qb’s that can at least scramble and throw on the run leaving the pocket. And qb’s that really are more of a pure pocket passer get beat all to heck in short order – it’s inescapable.

      • AlaskaHawk

        Brady always had a quick release with an average of 2.5 seconds. The offense was designed around that quick release.

        This has been one of the main gripes about Pete Carroll offenses, they didn’t have enough quick pass routes. You just can’t expect a pocket passer to have a lot of time in todays NFL.

        I think it’s a real disadvantage not to have scrambling abilities and not to be able to throw on the run toward the sideline. But it can be mitigated by quicker routes and throwing the ball away immediately if no one is open.

        Geno Smith suffered from the play calling too. As did the lack of protection on the interior. But if he had thrown within 2.5 seconds a lot of issues would have gone away.

      • Ben Fort Worth

        Yes, Drake Maye is going in the Top 5.

        • Brodie

          He’s asking what he will excel in (accuracy, scrambling, RPO, etc.)

          What does he do at a top 5 level – not will he get drafted top 5?

          • Ben Fort Worth

            Yup, if Rob had a delete, or edit button. That could’ve been fixed before your comment. But here we are.

    • BK26

      Patrick Mahomes is a pocket passer.

      It comes down to how are they in the pocket. Can they feel pressure? Slide? Adapt?

      • SeattleLifer

        Yet he does a lot of his important work throwing from weird angles/on the run, weaving, scrambling and flat out running for 1st downs and even some td’s….

        • bk26

          When the play has broken down or there is only minimal rush. Otherwise he is sitting in the pocket.

          He’s a pocket passer.

        • Peter

          I’m confused. Are we talking about Mahomes or Penix?

          Penix had 8 yds on 35 attempts including 3 tds. If every td was a yard or less then he had around 5 yards in the ground. Not sure how many first downs that equals to. Five one yard first down pick ups at best?

          He has that amazing scramble play against USC. You can pull any game highlight or season highlight you want from YouTube and its pocket, pocket, pocket.

          • Gritty Hawk

            In college they count sacks at rushing attempts, and sack yards as negative rushing yards, so with 11 sacks, he actually only rushed 24 times. I have absolutely no idea how many actual yards he had since they were offset by negative sack yardage. Maybe someone with PFF+ can see if they track separate QBs stats on designed runs/scrambles.

            • Peter

              Thank you. Did not know that about college stats.

      • Gritty Hawk

        Agreed on that. Running ability is less important than pocket awareness, intra-pocket mobility (like Drew Brees, can you take a step to the left, open the throwing lane, reset your feet and deliver an accurate pass), and at least enough athleticism to threaten the defense on a 3rd/4th-and-short scramble. Joe Burrow and Brock Purdy scramble about once a game, Jordan Love and CJ Stroud around 1.5 times a game — I think those are good archetypes of the “modern QB”.

        Patrick Mahomes is an unmatched talent, and it’s a futile exercise trying to find another guy like him. At some level, you need to prioritize either pocket passing ability or running ability — would you rather have a Jared Goff or a Lamar Jackson? I would argue that players resembling the former have had more recent playoff success than players akin to the latter.

    • Rob Staton

      They’re hardly ‘a thing of the past’

  39. Patrick Toler

    I am pretty close to square in the middle on Geno. I think it probably makes sense to keep him for 2024, but can see some very reasonable plans that would include trading him. The only thing that will really bother me is if they don’t invest in a young QB with a shot to be the future at the position.

    From that perspective I feel like the opinions from both the Geno lovers and Geno “haters” both tend towards being intolerant of the idea that the other side could have a valid argument. I would agree though, that the Geno believers are generally more belligerent.

    • Ben

      I pretty much have two indicators for each outlying end of opinions.

      The “Geno should go because Lock would be better.” Cheaper sure, but I wouldn’t really care who’s doing it cheaper unless it’s a rookie. Healthy Geno is far and away better currently.

      On the other end- those that still think the existing team was good enough. “We can’t cut Geno, Geno was good it was the defense that was bad!” So should we cut the safeties? “No the defense wasn’t that bad!”

      Carroll wasn’t fired just due to staffing/scheme, he was making bad personnel decisions.

      Overall though, Geno has been a bit of a flashpoint since 2022. Geno or Lock to should Geno get paid, to now.

      Hope it doesn’t get harped on too much, though at present it makes sense since there’s so much smoke and a lot of folks are heads in the sand…

      • AlaskaHawk

        Geno made 40 million in the last two years. He will make more if the Seahawks keep him. I think that’s adequate for a career backup who is an average starter. I certainly don’t feel sorry for Geno no matter what happens to him – as long as he isn’t injured horribly in a game.

  40. Charlie TheUnicorn2187

    JS made a comment a few weeks ago which has stuck with me. More or less he said on 710 radio that they were not always picking BPA until the last 2 drafts. They had forced a few picks, which they now acknowledge and via self-scouting the draft process, have remedied.

    My tea-leaves reading is they won’t force a QB pick at 16 (or any early round pick), if they are not 1000% that he is the guy for the job. With this all being said, I remember distinctly JS talking about Mahomes in 2017 before the draft, saying he is the next great QB. He went #10 to KC, rest is history. It was his arm, but also his intangibles which made him intriguing.

    I’ll trust the rejuvenated process…. during April 25–27, 2024.

    • Ben Fort Worth

      Which is why I think it’ll be an OL/DL at pick 16. Unless they feel that the talent drop-off is there and trade back.

  41. SeattleLifer

    I think it will be telling if the Seahawks pass on Penix (or take a different qb) if they have a shot at him in the 2nd or 3rd round. If it indeed plays out that way then woe to the team that does take him cause Grubb knows all the ball on Penix and if they pass on him it will essentially mean a hard pass indeed.

  42. RomeoA57

    If you look at Russell Wilson’s and Geno Smith’s stats from 2023, they are fairly similar. RW has a better Passer Rating and a worse QBR than Smith. They both started 15 games.

    RW is a bit older than Geno, but he did underperform compared to his salary, which is why he is going to be released. If you compare the offensive skill players between Seattle and Denver, there is no comparison. Seattle has much better players on offense.

    When Wilson gets cut soon, he will be able to sign a contract that won’t hit the salary contract too hard.

    My belief is that Geno may little trade value when you could sign someone like RW off of the street. Include that there are 6 QB prospects that could go high in the 2024 draft. Also Quarterbacks like Mayfield or Cousins could be available for teams

    • Wilson502

      This is why I think its a bit of a gamble to hope you get a decent draft pick for Geno. I would have rather taken the cap savings by cutting him before the 16th. The cap savings its not entirely “nothing”. Granted its not a draft pick, but saving 20m+ in cap space is not nothing.

      • Rob Staton

        Well even a 6th is better than nothing

        • Wilson502

          But is a 6th better than an additional 10m in cap space? That’s the question.

          • Rob Staton

            There’s no additional cap space

            It’s the same whether they cut him last week or trade him before March 18th

            • AlaskaHawk

              The effect on cap is the part I don’t understand. They just guaranteed Geno Smith another 12 million. Where is that being paid from? It’s certainly not worth anything less than a 2nd round pick. I’m going to have to go back to Cha’s articles.

              • Patrick Toler

                That money is just guaranteed now. So if they trade him, the receiving team will pay it.

                As opposed to the mid-March deadline which is a roster bonus, meaning it immediately goes against the cap of the team holding his contract.

              • Rob Staton

                The difference between now and last week, financially, means nothing

                And they won’t get a second round pick

    • STTBM

      But consider Wilson is a pain in the butt, and quite obviously hasn’t come to terms with his age-diminished athleticism.

      Geno, though older, has neither of these problems.

      And who is to say Wilson will play for anyone this year? There’s not much incentive.

      Not that I think we’ll get much for Geno, but some team will offer something. I’m guessing a fourth or fifth, maybe a conditional one as well.

      • RomeoA57

        I cannot see RW wanting to retire just yet. One of the QB needy teams is going to pay him around $1 Million per year to be their starting QB in 2024. His salary is going to be offset by his Denver Contract. That low cap hit is going to appeal to someone.

        I am in no way suggesting that Wilson comes back to Seattle, just that he will remove a team that would consider trading for Geno Smith.

    • Ben Fort Worth

      Mayfield and Cousins most likely re-sign with Tampa and Minnesota.

  43. Robert Las Vegas

    Rob not sure if you caught this but the Seahawks new defense coordinator Aden Durde favorite team in the premier League is West Ham and his wife and children are Arsenal fans.i don’t really follow premier League . is there much intensity between these 2 teams

    • Rubber Toe

      Not particularly, London derbies always have a bit of intensity but both of them would count Tottenham as a far bigger rival.

    • DriveByPoster

      Not Rob, but a UK football fan. The way they are playing at the moment, West Ham will have a hard time rivalling anyone!

      There is cerrtainly not much rivalry between them & Arsenal. West Ham are East London & Arsenal are North London. The Hammers derbies are more likley to be against Leyton Orient, except that they are so many divisions apart it never happens. Or maybe Millwall, who are South London. But again. It doesn’t happen often.

      Arsenal’s big rivals are Tottenham Hotspur (Spurs).

      • UkAlex6674

        West Ham v Millwall is huge.

        • Palatypus

          So going HAM on someone means something different in the UK?

    • Group Captain Mandrake

      As an Arsenal fan, I can tell you that no, there isn’t much heat between West Ham and Arsenal. There are a ton of teams in London so you can’t really have a rivalry with all of them. It’s not like being in Liverpool where there are two teams (Liverpool and Everton) or Manchester (Man City and Man U). The big one for Arsenal is Tottenham, which makes sense because they are literally right down the road.

  44. Trevor

    Rob I agree completely with your prediction on what the Hawks will do at QB. Pennix makes a ton of sense with the only caveat being his medicals.

    Used your idea to do a mock on Sportkedia with a trade back from GB.

    #25 Pennix – QBOF
    #52 Mckinley Jackson – Impact DT
    #76 Zach Zinter – 10yr quality starter at G and tone setter.
    #81 Peyton Wilson – perfect modern LB who excels in pass coverage.
    #83 Malik Mustafa – exactly the type of player the Hawks have lacked at S.
    #118 Junior Collison – Migh go earlier but would be ideal compliment to Wilson and excels as a run defender.
    #121 Theo Johnson – versatile TE who can block and nice replacement for Dissly.

    This would be a home run draft IMO .QBOF, Impact player on each side of the ball in the trenches, LB duo for the next 5yrs, a solid TE and day 1 starter at S.

    • BK26

      Well, he’s got a lot of other knocks besides the injuries. That is just the biggest.

      • Peter

        I see Rob’s thought process. A few things that I am ruminating on. I need to see the testing at the combine*. Not sure there’s an honest college in the world with sizes, athletic performance.

        On a good day I see the deep throws over and over on a dozen highlight reels. Looks awesome. No doubt.

        On the other hand.

        It’s a big concern his short, intermediate game. It’s very concerning on a highlight, yes a play someone is using to show off your skills, when he is clearly waiting for whatever play he’s made his mind up. Appreciate Rob’s thought process on John but the nfl game week to week is not just deep strikes and “hope,” you get the run game going.

        What happens when you can’t? Oh well guess that’s an “L”. The scrambling is a problem and the lack of production with his legs is a massive problem.

        On a bad day….part of me wonders if you’re not getting the worst of Wilson and the worst of Geno in one guy?

        -holds on to the ball waiting for the deep strike
        -where’s the ‘take what the defense is giving’ ?
        -clearly was told by UW not to move forward to avoid getting killed
        -or maybe worse….can not do it

        * combine testing* = like the senior bowl I think these qbs need to throw in Indy and test in Indy. None to my knowledge are injured. Rob nailed it. But it was embarrassing how little all of them did in Mobile.

        • bk26

          I’ve thought that too. His short to intermediate, inability to escape sacks. Stretches where he doesn’t elevate the team. Bits of both current/ex qb’s.

          Those stretches where he can’t make the easier throws, throwing to spots instead of where the receiver needs it, times where the deep ball is taken away (as well as how much better corners and safeties will be in general). All the while in the same offense that he’s ran since he started college. One that I don’t really think develops too much. Too much is done for him. I’ve said it before: Grubb and someone else, yes. Penix and another OC, OK. But them together, I’d rather pass.

          • Peter

            Wish I had more access to college All-22. Sometimes I’m stunned by how open a WR is at UW.

            Sometimes I think Odunze is going to be the best WR in this draft. It is unbelievable how many catches he pulls out if his hat with a DB on top of him.

            Other times I chuckle when I hear an announcer say “look at that wall of protection for penix,” a verbatim quote.

            I just don’t know. I can’t deny the arm talent. When I get into a wormhole I come back out the other side with Rattler. Everytime I watch too much Penix I get googly eyes for every player in that offense but him. If I watch too much Nix I start thinking he’s the best qb then trail off to thinking he’s a robot that needs a perfect plan.

            Rattler is maybe the only qb in our range with both sucky stats and doing it essentially alone with 1 receiver. For me SC looks like pro football where things don’t go the way you want because you have players overmatched. With OU/UW they look like varsity playing the JV team with how inept some of the defenses are.

            • bk26

              Completely agree with how their games look. SEC football just looks and feels like the NFL. It is all more or less the same style.

              With the Pac-12, feels farther away. It sucks, but Oregon and Washington were just too good overall and were well-ran machines. Those offenses were just good top to bottom.

              I’m beating a dead horse, but with Rattler you could see how good he was and how in control he was despite of the team around him. It was very easy to watch without the “ah the o-line is amazing, the skill players are studs. Damn, that schemed play broke him wide open.”

              This is a pretty hard year.

    • Blitzy the Clown

      WTF man! I’ve run dozens of mocks on sportskeeda and Zinter has NEVER made it out of the 50s for me. Not once.

      • Peter

        I’m telling ya Blitzy. You are cursed!!😀 I get him at 72-76 so often I’ve stopped taking him because I feel like it’s a jinx.

        • Palatypus

          Blitzy, did you make a wish at that Zoltar machine?

  45. Cysco

    Cha, if you see this, Question:

    What does a scenario look like where they trade Geno during the next season?

    Was just thinking that a plausible scenario could be we draft a QB and Geno stays on the roster and potentially gets traded during the season if another team becomes QB needy. (Assuming there are no takers for him pre-season)

    • cha

      The only thing they are on the hook for currently is $8.7m of the bonus proration and with a $33.7m number they could save $25m cap.

      Same roster bonus situation as this year – March 20 with a $10m makes it a hard date to get a trade done (or pay some of the salary or bonus and get a better pick).

      Same chances for $15m of escalators as this year too. That roster bonus could be as much as $25m. But that is not guaranteed. He’ll never see it if he earns them, but will enhance his market for an extension or new contract.

      • cha

        Also the 2025 salary does not have a guarantee date. So that’s flexible.

  46. Peter

    Can’t wait for the combine and all the blog sleuths that start posting about team visits.

    On this gloomy Monday in my part of the world I’m starting to wonder if John does do the Green bay thing going forward?

    Take a qb this year and then take a qb next year.

    Of the four most likely we could draft I’m not sure any of them are going to move the needle. None are special like Mahomes in college or specimens like Allen. None look like great finds with killer arms and plus athleticism that you can sneak into the third round. Because they have a fatal flaw of being short.

    I won’t be surprised if this takes a few cracks at bat. Maybe Penix in the second and Ewers the following year.

    With Pete gone hopefully John can do the hard things Pete was unwilling to do.

    • Rob Staton

      Oh god the endless tweets and questions to prospects ‘have you met with X team’

      The worst bit of the combine aside from 75% of the prospects not doing the agility testing

      • Peter

        The combine is a total let down from a few years ago.

        I know folks call it the underwear Olympics but I enjoy that some players can rise a round or so if they show out.

        • Palatypus

          Pants Olympics in British. We went over this.

    • Blitzy the Clown

      I’m not picking on you Peter, but did you really think Mahomes was special in college? I remember that class well, and although he was intriguing, I never thought he was ‘special’.

      I guess I say that because although there are several intriguing QB prospects not named Caleb Williams who I also don’t think are special. But the point is, we never really know.

      Unless you really did with Mahomes.

      • bk26

        From what it sounded like with Mahomes, his interviews are what did it in for a lot of teams. Andy Reid especially praised him on the board, almost generational in his dissection of plays (generational…go figure). It’s one of those intangible things that we as fans can’t know about until it’s too late.

        I was listening to the draft live on the radio (local KC) and they didn’t really know who he was. But their local coverage is…not very prepared.

      • Peter

        I did not really think one thing or the other about Mahomes then. The only thing I knew about because I grew up reading the Guinness book of records and to this day love that stuff was he had some truly out there records at Texas tech. Outside of Rob I’m not sure howmany of were watching any qbs from ’13 to ’19. I know I barely was.

        I’ve mentioned before but I could write a fairly detailed break down of every qb snap by snap in a positive or negative way and mean every word.

        The ones we could draft, presumably, don’t grab my fascination like richardson or others have. Or like Ewers ( if healthy) or Howard ( if actually coached) next year.

        • Peter

          I can remember vividly watching Wilson over and over on draft breakdown thinking this is THE best qb in the draft not named luck.

          I just don’t get that this year.

          Penix- just pass, pass, pass. Each prettier than the next. Or- if any db in college would turn their head why are 80% of the throws into pbu’s and throwing wr’s into trouble.

          Nix- just joking he actually has a big arm and can burn people with his feet and filthy misdirection. Or- is he even making reads or just counting one Mississippi and throwing to a spot regardless of who is there.

          Mccarthy- can slide and do that jumping rifling it on a dime thing. Or- why can he not sense pressure and gets caught from behind way too often.

          • Blitzy the Clown

            I agree on Wilson. I thought he was special, regardless of his height. He was a field general in total control of his offense.

        • Big Mike

          “gloomy Monday”
          Yep, sure is. I hate this time of year. Football is over and the weather is wet and dreary for the most part.

          • cha

            Detroit Red Wings @ Kraken at 12:30pm today

          • Peter

            One of my friends is in AZ watching beavers spring ball and I’m pretty jealous.

            Meanwhile I’ll be outside spraying the mud off my gators so they can look like crap again this time tomorrow.

    • PJ in Seattle

      “I won’t be surprised if this takes a few cracks at bat. Maybe Penix in the second and Ewers the following year.”

      You’re right that you have to keep taking swings until you find THE GUY. I think John likes Ewers a lot and has already been in contact with him. Problem is, unless he regresses in some spectacular way, he’s likely to be a top 5 pick and we’ll probably have to sell the farm to move up and get him. Not sure you do that if you draft Penix (or Nix or McCarthy) this year and he actually looks the part.

  47. cha

    Has there been any chatter about BT Jordan staying on with the team?

    That was a great low-key hiring. Seahawks were top 12 in pressures and sacks last year.

    One of the highlights of training camp was watching the pass rushers do drills with him.

    • Seattle Person

      Durde coached exclusively the D-Line when with Dallas. I don’t know if he continues to do that along with the game planning as the def coordinator. Plus the team just hired an assistant LB coach in Josh Bynes.

      It doesn’t hurt though. Jordan might be keeping his options open or looking for higher up positions.

    • Ben

      Scoured for the that info last week, and doesn’t seem to be anything. Kinda hope he sticks around.

  48. cha

    From Alber Breer’s piece this morning

    Such is the case with the Bears and Justin Fields—with the team having gotten a little insight into what his trade value may be. Chicago staffers got inquiries from other teams on Fields in Mobile. And while the Bears haven’t shopped Fields, those conversations did allow the team to start to gauge the 2021 first-rounder’s worth out there on the market.

    Senior Bowl started some soft inquiries on the QB trade market.

    If Geno is going to be traded, the Seahawks will be fielding offers right now and weighing them out. Also quietly negotiating with Drew Lock.

  49. Chris

    I think your content is great and it’s refreshing to hear diverse opinions on the Seahawks.

    Not refuting your analysis in anyway, but I thought it was interesting that Schneider dismissed Geno being only Pete’s guy during his interview with Seattle Sports (even though he wasn’t asked about Geno specifically).

    He also spoke broadly about not planning on taking a step back, which would typically lead one to believe Geno could be back if the goal is to be competitive.

    That said, I’m hoping we take a step back and put ourselves in a better position for 2025. Clear the deck of guys who don’t fit and start rebuilding the team – learning new schemes/systems takes time.

    Given the perceived weaker QB class in 2025, I’m totally fine trading back and taking Penix Jr. if his medicals check out. Not sure why anyone would be against the possibility of moving on from Geno – we aren’t ever winning a SB with him anyway.

    • Rob Staton

      He did say that and I will not refer to Geno as purely Pete’s guy any more — but neither did I think that suggested anything about the future

      As for taking a step back, I don’t think any team would ever want or claim to be leaning that way. I don’t think that means much either. If Geno was the guy they could’ve just said so in multiple pressers

      • Big Mike

        And how many of the people that are saying you’re full of crap suggesting that Geno might be traded will actually come in and admit you (and a bunch of us here tho certainly not all) were right?
        My guess: crickets

        • Big Mike

          Not directed at Chris

        • Chris

          The fun part about a new regime is the endless possibilities of what could be. To dismiss them is ignorance and honestly just not fun.

          Geno could very well be here next season, but he just as easily could be moved. If we draft say Penix, I could be just as easily convinced that he’s the best mentor for him.

          At the same time, why not just have Penix take his lumps this coming year as a starter in a system he knows and have a season of experience under his belt for 2025?

          • Brodie

            It really isn’t fun is it?

            Dismissing almost anything at this stage is crazy. I’m believe that JS & MM have an idea of how they want to steer this thing and where we need to go. That said, they’ll want to keep their options open for as long as possible in the event that something comes along at the last minute to shake things up.

            To say that the Hawks will or will do anything definitively just makes me shake my head. Unfortunately there isn’t much accountability these days, so people can say things like “they will NOT trade RW – 100%. No chance!”… be wrong… and then be back to saying “they will NOT fire PC – 100%. No chance!”… be wrong… and then be back to saying the next declarative about whoever (Jamal, Geno, pick #16) and there are no receipts.

            I think Rob has laid out some pretty valid thoughts on why JS appears to be luke warm on Geno and the possible benefits of trading him to help the cap, etc. I also appreciate that while he likely thinks that is the way it’s trending (& possibly best for the long-term future of the team) he isn’t planting a flag and saying this definitely will happen.

            I doubt John knows right now. If someone offers an unexpectedly great trade package, it goes one way. If there is no market for him, it goes another. If Geno says, I love it here and want to restructure my deal to make it work including changing some guaranteed money to incentives (who knows) it goes another.

        • Rob Staton

          Probably the same number who did that over Wilson, Jalen Carter, Pete…

          It is what it is. You can’t expect people to do that

      • Chris

        Agreed that it doesn’t mean much at all. John was very vague when speaking about expectations for next season. Just pointing out it’s easy for some to make that connection.

        I’d be interested in your thoughts on how easy it is for a QB to improve accuracy and anticipation on both short and intermediate throws, as well as throwing on the run.

        • Rob Staton

          I’d be interested in your thoughts on how easy it is for a QB to improve accuracy and anticipation on both short and intermediate throws, as well as throwing on the run.

          It’s not something I’ve studied or asked people with expertise about so I’m not sure to be honest. It would be interesting to know how, say, Mahomes and Allen were viewed in this area

          • Rob Staton

            Lance’s pre-draft review included this on Mahomes:

            Needs to improve anticipatory reads and learn to take what the defense gives him

      • cha

        This was said after the Schefter tweet, and so I would not be surprised if JS were more positive about Geno in the press to keep the trade value fires burning.

  50. Palatypus

    Working on some OPP-INTEL from the Senior Bowl.

    Coming soon.

    • Blitzy the Clown

      OPP is the best kind of anything

  51. RainInSpain

    New hot take – Lock is a better QB than Geno if they use him in the run game and ask him to run more (or ever) on scrambles.

    Also, I think Russell Wilson’s career took a huge downhill turn when they stopped using him on read option or just a threat to run in general. Even just within games it seemed like they opened up the defense more if they showed him as a threat.

    • cha

      Geno’s runs/scrambles went way down in 2023. Almost in half.

      Not sure if we’ll ever know if that was by design or just by virtue of Geno’s decision-making. But it was a dumb decision either way.

      • RainInSpain

        Did you notice Lock still looking to pass when the run was a better option? One time in particular he could’ve easily run for a first down and still threw the ball.

        So perhaps that was by design with Geno and Lock… But it certainly didn’t seem to help the offense.

  52. Tallyhawk

    Russ not running the last few seasons really drove me mad. They ran what seemed to be a read option with him carrying out a fake even though he almost never kept it. All I wanted was a keeper early to show it and keep the opposing D honest. Not to mention if timed properly it would pick up yards and god forbid convert an early 3rd down. It seemed to me at the time many forgot especially RW himself how important his running was early in his career.

    • Big Mike

      Patrick Mahomes thinks it’s a good play………..Nick Bosa on the other hand…………..

    • RainInSpain

      Exactly my thoughts. The defense opened up once they saw he was willing to run it.

  53. HOUSE


    You’ve upset some of the clowns in Bleacher Report’s forum. It wasn’t hard defending your stance on topics like:
    1. Russ
    2. Jalen Carter
    3. Pete Carroll
    4. Geno not being the future

    The writer’s response was “get off his nutz”… Why are FACTS so hurtful to people? Immature little fools are afraid of differing opinions and when facts are presented, they say dumb stuff like his response.

    Keep up the great work!

    • cha

      That strategy post I made got posted on Reddit.

      Two pretty quick comments, not about the post but about Rob.

      They were immediately downvoted into oblivion. Which was surprising but not totally unexpected.

      • HOUSE


        You’re another that uses sound logic/evidence and apparently it isn’t too popular with people.

        I appreciate what you do!

        • cha


          A way to sniff out the ones interested in having a real honest discussion is to ask them the flipside of what their position is.

          “So, you want to keep Geno Smith. Let me ask you – what would the benefits be of moving on from him this offseason?” and if they can’t or don’t want to answer, you can politely excuse yourself from the conversation.

          I was talking to a coworker about Pete Carroll moving on, and I asked that question, and I swear I could hear the gears in his head turning. If anything, it moved him off his all-or-nothing position a bit.

          • HOUSE

            I totally understand what you’re saying. I find it hilarious and can tell immediately when there aren’t gears at all. 🤣

  54. Brodie

    Let’s say Tyler retires or they move on from him this year… who do like in the draft if that becomes a need?

    I haven’t really gone through the WR’s much, but like Roman Wilson (UM) and what I saw from Luke McCaffery (Rice). I think we’d be looking at R3 at the earliest with all of the other needs. Curious who has caught peoples eye.

    Ainias Smith (TAMU) looks electric and people were talking about Cowing (UA). The UW WR’s both look great. Are there any favorites in the RD 3-7 range on Robs board (or off) that people like?

    • Seattle Person

      There is a long list of guys I really like that are bound for the 2nd-4th rounds.

      Ladd McConkey
      Roman Wilson
      Ja’Lynn Polk
      Rickey Pearsall
      Jamari Thrash (I think he’s my personal favorite. His ability to track the deep ball and make subtle moves to get open at the top of the route is very Tyler-like)
      Malik Washington
      Javon Baker
      Jha’Quan Jackson

      • Brodie

        Nice. I haven’t watched Thrash yet. Will check him out.

        • Ben

          Very disappointed to learn he isn’t related to James Thrash…

    • DougM

      Malik Washington and Ladd McKonkey. Like JSN, both had a reception percentage above 80%. Another would be Tahj Washington.

      • Seattle Person

        Malik Washington had one of the best separation grades in all of college football this past season. His quickness really stands out.

        He might benefit from the Seahawks going off of talent more than just raw athleticism. I think he might fit the BPA approach and not a Pete Carroll approach.

        • DougM

          I like looking at reception percentage because it seems to be correlated to being able to create separation.

      • Brodie

        I like Mckonkey, but was thinking he’d be gone in round 2. Washington should last a bit based on what I’ve seen. Will check him out too

    • Ben

      I’d love to add another WR. Seems like a lot of fun slot guys again this year. Having Bobo and another rookie competing for the future 3rd spot seems beneficial.

  55. Jabroni-DC

    Carter Bradley South Alabama QB American 6038 218 0938 3147 7700
    Joe Milton III Tennessee QB American 6050 235 1038 3318 8058
    Michael Pratt Tulane QB American 6023 216 0900 3048 7700
    Spencer Rattler South Carolina QB American 6001 219 0968 3118 7448
    Sam Hartman Notre Dame QB National 6010 209 0958 3878 7528
    Bo Nix Oregon QB National 6017 218 0978 3028 7438
    Michael Penix Jr. Washington QB National 6024 212 1038 3358 8138

    Those are the QB measurements from the senior bowl. Penix looks bigger than that to my eye. Rattler is 6’ even but solid at 219 lbs..

  56. 509 Chris

    Ive been thinking about Lock and Geno. The fans give Geno the edge or advocate he’s the best option to win now because he knows the offense better and has more experience running it. I don’t think they realize there will be a brand new offense in town. I think in the UW offense or a version of it they might be thinking Lock’s superior mobility and bigger arm might be attractive. In general I’m really excited to see what both sides of the ball look like and what they are able to do with the young talent on the roster.

  57. Palatypus

    I have an OPP-INTEL follow up from the Senior Bowl instead of my usual silly comments.
    Keen eyed followers of this blog may remember that because there is no WIFI at Hancock-Whitney Stadium constant complaints amongst the journalist are 1) The stainless-steel concessions tables on the concourse are too heavy to move, and 2) The power outlets are ten feet away. So, armed with a 15’ extension cable and a power strip with six three-pronged connectors and 2x USB, 1x USB 3.0 ports on it, I laid the trap. I bribed a security guard with a Buccees brisket sandwich to let me take it in, since only people with journalist credentials were allowed to bring in a backpack this year.
    Since that investment at Walmart was less than $50.00, I didn’t care if it was stolen, so I left it on a table. When I got back to it during the intermission between the National and American squads, the Fox8 sports guys from New Orleans were getting power off it for their laptops and cellphones, which they were probably using as mobile hot spots. I explained to them they were free to use it and instantly I was their friend.
    “Hi, I’m Sean.” (On the left.)
    “Hi, I’m Andre.” (On the right.)
    Although, at the time, Sean was on my right and Andre was on my left. Anyway, while I was sitting there just listening, no spying, on what they were saying, Sean gets a call. I can tell he’s excited. “Got an interview?” I said.
    “Yeah, Drew Brees.” He said.
    They discuss what he said to them in the video.

    The Saints are interesting because in a lot of ways they are in a similar position to Seattle. New Orleans is currently $83,683,454 over the cap according to OTC. They have a ton of free agents, do not have a third or fourth round draft pick, have concerns on the offensive line, and want to select a quarterback of the future. These are the Saints draft picks. 14(1), 45(2), 149(5), 167(5), 169(5), 174(5), 192(6), 201(6), and 230(7).

    In a perfect world Saints fans universally would take Jayden Daniels with their top pick. But circumstances make that impossible. After him, there is a lot of chatter about Bo Nix, that they are familiar with from his days at Auburn. I have family in Bayou La Batre and family in Jefferson Parish. One half Alabama fans and the other LSU fans. But as tribal as they are, they are all Saints fans. Bo Nix is very appealing. He would sell tickets and jerseys.
    But would they draft him at #14? All signs point to the Saints trading down with 15 unrestricted free agents, not to mention restricted free agents. Yes, it’s that bad. This means two things. First, the Saints are trading down from #14. Second, someone is trading ahead of the Seahawks at #16.

    Let’s examine the video. First is the “big picture” topic of Derek Carr restructuring his contract. They must use some “cap gymnastics.” They have no choice. Luke Johnson reports that Carr is willing to do this, and the Saints are committed to him. As Sean points out, the Saints do not keep high base salaries on their books. It always gets converted into a bonus as they kick the can down the curb.
    Derek Carr has a $30 million base salary. Including the bonus, his cap number is $35.7 million. As Sean illustrates, even if they were able to take about $20 million of the books here, they would still have considerable work to do. But from a math standpoint it makes it likely that Carr is sticking around for a while. As Andre points out, Derek Carr is Dennis Allen’s guy, and their fates may be intertwined. Dennis Allen needs this to work.

    Andre brings up that Carr is the 13th highest paid quarterback in the league and was the 13th in yards. The fan base is lukewarm on him, but they are getting what they pay for. Sound familiar? And then they turn their attention to the interview with Drew Brees. After a few minutes of B.S. about his hair and the ribbon cutting of his new restaurant, they get back on topic at the 15:05 mark.
    At the 21:20 mark we finally get to the meat of it where Andre points out how complimentary Drew Brees was and how he feels he can be a top five quarterback in this league with the right offensive coordinator, which is why Pete Carmichael is gone.
    Andre tells us how Brees was very complimentary of Kyle Shanahan, Sean McVay, and Mike McDaniels when they were “stealing” things that they did in New Orleans as his offense evolved. And now we know, as of four days ago, that New Orleans has hired Klint Kubiak, the former San Francisco 49er’s passing game coordinator. Tell me if you have seen this movie before?
    If Derek Carr is a bridge quarterback, he is the bridge over Lake Pontchartrain, which is almost 24 miles long. I think it is unlikely that they take a quarterback early. Maybe they think Michael Pratt is the next Brock Purdy? Whatever they do, it will have an impact on the Seahawks at #16.

    • bmseattle

      Cool intel, Palatypus, and great reading of the tea leaves.
      Do you think there will be a market for pick #14?
      Anyone jumping up significantly to that spot, would most likely be doing it for a QB… which means Nix or Penix, or McCarthy would be going at that spot, most likely.

      I suppose someone could come up for one of the edge rushers or an OT, too.
      Either way, that’s a pick that will most likely be taking someone off the board that The Seahawks *might* be willing to stick and pick for.
      It also means that there might be competition (and thus, less compensation given) between us and the Saints, for teams wanting to move up into that range.
      Interesting stuff.

      • Palatypus

        Minnesota? Pittsburgh?

        • bmseattle

          I was thinking more along the lines of… will the players available there be worth trading up for, for those teams?

          • Palatypus

            In the sportskeeda sim I did, the 49ers offered me a boatload of picks.

  58. Blitzy the Clown

    Rams replace Peetz

    Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter

    LA Rams are hiring Iowa State offensive coordinator Nate Scheelhaase as their Pass Game Specialist. The 33-year-old Scheelhaase, who played QB at Illinois, generated interest from NFL teams in recent years, and he now makes the move to the NFL to work under Sean McVay.

    2:12 PM · Feb 19, 2024

    • bk26

      Damn, I remember him at Illinois. Took the job from Juice Williams. One of those years they made the Rose Bowl in the 2000’s

      Aaaand now I feel old.

  59. ShowMeYourHawk

    Pittsburgh beat writer says he hears the Steelers prefer not to sign or trade for a QB with ambitions to start:

    Obviously, much can be negotiated before Geno’s bonus is due but the unofficial word is that they want to see if Pickett can finally make good on his role as QB1.

    • Wilson502

      Starting to look like JS may have overplayed his hand regarding Geno. As I suspect there’s just not that much market or value for him.

      • bmseattle

        Perhaps… but let’s say The Stealers *arent* really interested in Pickett starting, and *would* be interested in trading for Geno… they would likely leak the above story as a negotiating ploy.
        Stories like the above can’t be taken at face value.

        • Rob Staton

          Could be a very calculated leak to the local press after Art Rooney II blurted out they were open to trading for a veteran QB

    • bk26

      Boy that won’t backfire at all….

      Why try to bring in someone that could be an easy upgrade….

  60. Apologies to the chef

    Bears added the Seahawks former OC this offseason and are planning to start over at the QB position. I’m getting the feeling there’s another shoe to drop in the Seattle to Chicago pipeline…

    Bears trade the #1 overall pick to Washington and draft whichever of the remaining QB’s it has second (or maybe first) on their board.

    Bears send Justin Fields to Seattle along with Washington’s second (Caleb Williams trade) and their original third round pick. In return Seattle sends their first and fifth round picks and Geno Smith.

    Seattle moves back from middle 1st to top of the second, gets a third pick in the third round, and starts over with a new QB and a new coaching regime.

    Chicago gets multiple 1st round picks in this draft(3), an immediate starter at QB that the offensive staff knows they can be successful with, and buys a year for their rookie to sit. After which they’ll either have the best backup QB situation in the league, or deal Geno again for some compensation.

    • Rob Staton

      I can’t wait for Fields to go somewhere else so we can stop talking about him. He isn’t good

      • Apologies to the chef

        In fairness, Geno was so far off the board that he won comeback player of the year without coming back from anything…
        Is Fields at 24 a more interesting prospect than any we’ll likely have access to with our draft capital this year and assumed floor moving forward with Mike’s defensive prowess?

        • Rob Staton


          • Apologies to Rob Staton

            😂 fair enough… thanks for (not) humoring me at least. Love what you do, looking forward to seeing what the powers at be see for the future of the position!

            • Rob Staton

              Sorry, there’s just been so much Fields talk

© 2024 Seahawks Draft Blog

Theme by Anders NorenUp ↑