Pete Carroll admitted last week the Seahawks are considering adding another pass rusher and he saw a few attractive options in the draft.
So what type of player have they looked at in the past and how does it help us identify possible targets in this class?
Since 2010, the Seahawks have drafted the following EDGE/DE types:
Bruce Irvin
Frank Clark
Cassius Marsh
Obum Gwachum
— All of the players ran a sub-4.30 short shuttle. Irvin and Clark both ran sensational times (4.03 and 4.05 respectively).
— Irvin and Clark also ran elite 1.5 10-yard splits. Marsh ran a 1.70 and Gwachum a 1.66. So an elite time doesn’t appear to be critical even if it’s appealing.
— It’s a mixed bag in terms of explosive traits. Irvin (10-3, 33.5), Clark (9-10, 38.5), Marsh (9-6, 32), Gwachum (10-1, 36) all have different results in the broad and vertical.
— The TEF results also vary. Irvin (3.41), Clark (3.25) and Gwachum (3.38) all performed well but Marsh (2.84) was much less explosive. If you’re unfamiliar with TEF or don’t understand why we use it on defensive linemen, there’s an explanation here.
— All of the group had +33 inch arms.
— Three of the four ran a 7.08 or faster in the three cone, with Obum Gwachum running a 7.28.
There are bits of pieces of info here but nothing strikingly consistent apart from arm length.
Now let’s look at the 2017 class…
— No D-line prospects ran a short shuttle anywhere near as good as Irvin or Clark. Carl Lawson had the fastest time at 4.19. Trey Hendrickson (4.20), Solomon Thomas (4.28) and Jordan Willis (4.28) were the only other sub 4.30 runners.
— In terms of 10-yard splits, Jordan Willis (1.57), Haason Reddick (1.59) and Trey Hendrickson (1.59) all ran in the elite 1.5’s. Terrell Basham, Carl Lawson, Takk McKinley and Derek Rivers all ran a 1.60.
— Myles Garrett (4.21), Haason Reddick (3.93), Solomon Thomas (3.83), Jordan Willis (3.70), Ife Odenigbo (3.61), Derek Rivers (3.57), Carl Lawson (3.54) all performed very well in TEF.
— There are over 30 players that topped a 3.00. Here are the prospects who scored a +3.00 with +33 inch arms:
Josh Carraway — 34 1/4
Taco Charlton — 34 1/4
Daeshon Hall — 35 5/8
Tanoh Kpassagnon — 35 5/8
Jeremiah Ledbetter — 34 1/4
Takk McKinley — 34 3/4
Carroll Phillips — 33 3/4
Dawuane Smoot — 33 1/4
Jordan Willis — 33 1/2
Deatrich Wise — 35 5/8
If we isolate this group for now, let’s see how they tested in the short shuttle and 10-yard split:
Josh Carraway — 4.44, 1.72
Taco Charlton — 4.39, 1.70
Daeshon Hall — 4.38, 1.67
Tanoh Kpassagnon — 4.62, 1.69
Jeremiah Ledbetter — 4.56, 1.72
Takk McKinley — 4.62, 1.61
Carroll Phillips — 4.37, 1.64
Dawuane Smoot — 4.39, 1.68
Jordan Willis — 4.28, 1.57
Deatrich Wise — 4.36, 1.70
Considering they haven’t drafted any player with a +4.30 short shuttle, the times by Takk McKinley and Tanoh Kpassagnon (4.62) stand out negatively. Jordan Willis obviously looks like a fit (not a surprise considering he had one of the best combines regardless of position). The times run by Taco Charlton, Daeshon Hall, Carroll Phillips, Dawuane Smoot and Deatrich Wise aren’t particularly troubling even if they’re reasonably below Obum Gwachum’s 4.28.
Can we learn any more using the three cone?
The following players from the list above (33 inch arms, explosive traits) all ran comparatively well to Seattle’s previous draft picks:
Jordan Willis — 6.85
Daeshon Hall — 7.03
Carroll Phillips — 7.06
Deatrich Wise — 7.06
Taco Charlton — 7.17
Dawuane Smoot — 7.18
Josh Carroway — 7.20
The following ran much slower than Seattle’s picks:
Tanoh Kpassagnon — 7.46
Takk McKinley — 7.48
Jeremiah Ledbetter — 7.55
A pattern is more or less forming here. The likes of Jordan Willis, Daeshon Hall, Taco Charlton, Carroll Phillips and Deatrich Wise could be safely on their radar.
That said, there’s not a stand-out piece of data here. Not in the way they’ve consistently taken cornerbacks with size and 32 inch arms. Not in the way they’ve looked at the short shuttle marks at linebacker. Not in the way they’ve highlighted explosive traits on the O-line.
With so many explosive defensive linemen in the class, they might be willing to take one even if their short-area quickness isn’t as good as the likes of Irvin, Clark or Marsh.
The 33 inch arms is a trend but would they really rule out Alabama’s Tim Williams for having 32 3/4 inch arms? Or Derek Rivers? Or Tarell Basham?
And are they willing to look the other way if a prospect runs a really good 10-yard split, such as Trey Hendrickson, Terrell Basham, Carl Lawson, Takk McKinley and Derek Rivers?
These are questions we’ll be able to answer with greater confidence after the 2017 draft (assuming they do add a pass rusher).
It’s also worth considering the rush linebackers. We’ve already highlighted how T.J. Watt and Tyus Bowser compare physically to Khalil Mack. So how do they compare to the D-line class?
— Both have +33 inch arms
— T.J. Watt ran a 4.13 short shuttle, faster than any defensive lineman at the combine (Bowser didn’t run a short shuttle at the combine)
— Bowser (6.75) and Watt (6.79) ran faster three-cone times than any of the defensive linemen
— They both ran elite 1.59 10-yard splits
— Watt (3.64) and Bowser (3.61) both excel in TEF
Essentially Watt and Bowser would fit right in with Seattle’s previous pass rush picks. Sadly, both could go in the top-45.
That’s probably the case for Jordan Willis too. So if adding a pass rusher in rounds 2-3 is a target for the Seahawks — Daeshon Hall, Carroll Phillips and Deatrich Wise are perhaps more likely to land in Seattle.
They could, of course, repeat what they did last year. Move down in round one and then trade up in round two.
By this point you’re also probably wondering about interior rushers. Unfortunately, it’s hard to find them in this draft class.
There are some markers to focus on. The three interior rushers they’ve drafted previously all ran quick short shuttle times for their size:
Jordan Hill — 4.51
Jaye Howard — 4.47
Quinton Jefferson — 4.37
Jordan Hill, the highest interior rusher drafted in the Carroll/Schneider era as a former third round pick, scored a 3.09 in TEF. Jaye Howard only scored a 2.62 and Quinton Jefferson didn’t perform a broad jump.
In the 2017 class, Eddie Vanderdoes ran a 4.39, Ryan Glasgow a 4.50, Jonathan Allen a 4.50 and Malik McDowell a 4.53. These are the quickest short shuttle times among interior defensive linemen.
Only Vanderdoes from the four names above scored a +3.00 in TEF (3.04).
So while a lot of fans are clamouring for another interior pass rusher to be added, it’ll be tough finding one in this class.
It’s also worth keeping an eye on confirmed VMAC visitors, especially any prospects not invited to the combine. It’s a good way to identify potential targets and highly athletic prospects we haven’t discussed here.
Jordan Willis looks intriguing with his production, dedication and 10 yard split. I would love him at 58, but guessing he goes in the 40s. DE/Edge guys always went early but those recent FA DE/Edge contracts, they’re not going to be sitting their deep in R2.
If the team is looking for a LEO to replace Cliff Avril then he is probably the best option in the draft. Both in terms of measurables and style of play. Bowser, Watt then Reddick are probably the next closest but they will all probably go high up in the draft.
Personally I think a LEO is a more likely target as they only have one legitimate speed rusher on the team. Cliff Avril has also had two surgeries this off-season and will need an eventual replacement.
LeoSharp you nailed it we will be adding Avril replacement. Putting opponent QB on his back is the cheapest, fastest, safest, & most probable way we can improve our defense/team in this draft.
Furthermore Carrolls willingness to consider trading Sherman demonstrates how deep our current CB/DB bench is, just like our front 4 both need only 1 future starter to best unit in NFL.
Avril just had a career year.
I’m not convinced they’ll be looking for his replacement.
Cliff Avril, K.J. Wright, Richard Sherman, Earl Thomas Tyler Locket and Frank Clark are all going to be hitting UFA at the end if the 2018 season. If Avril is still playing at a high level I think it would be unrealistic to retain him and have 3 really expensive DE’s on the team when there are more important players such as Earl Thomas and youunger players that will probably be the priority. Replacing Avril might have to happen simply because he’s playing so well and prices himself out of Seattle.
He’s also the only true Leo on the team so needs a backup at least
But why does Avril have to be the odd man out? Yes those players are out of contract but their current salaries also come off the books. And with the cap rising they might be able to, realistically, retain all with a pay increase. It might be that they just can’t add any big name outside FA’s.
A couple of other things to consider — Frank Clark is progressing nicely. But if what he is now is Frank Clark at his best, are you paying him around $20m a year? Because that might be the price in 2019. He’s really good but he’s not ‘more money than Russell Wilson’ good. Also, does anyone see Richard Sherman getting an extension any time soon? He might not even be on the roster by the draft.
I don’t see Avril asking for top dollar. He will want fair compensation, if he wants to keep playing, but he likes Seattle and will play for less there. By 2018, he may be playing less and happy to do so.
And if the hawks have a lot of big free agents in 2018, it means they have a lot of cap space also.
now, if the question is: do the Hawks want more pass rushers? Yes
Avril would be the oldest and by that time may be looking at retirement. He’s also most likely to have declined in play due him relying more on his physical abilities to win. With a decline in his ability as a pure edge rusher you’d need a every down player to replace him even if you can retain him. The team also prefers speed out of the LEO spot and by 32 Avril will most likely have lost a step or two
Too many people are desperate to write off Cliff Avril and consign him to retirement
I like Willis as well. I suggested him as a second round pick in another mock draft blog. Not sure if he will be there though due to his combine. He has good size along with his speed…6′ 4″…255Lbs. I can see see him playing SAM as well. He shows up at Walter Football as a 3-4 OLB, OLB and DE.
Rob, if (like you started and many echo) the Hawks could get a Reddick/Bowser type that can play LB on 1st down then move to DE on passing downs (Avril/Bennett/Clark/ROOKIE) it would be amazing. If King/Obi/Reddick are all gone, trade back, and come away with:
2nd Tankersley/Baker (trade back)
2nd Bowser/Watt (trade up)
Based on what Schneider said about the SAM, I think if they take Watt or Bowser it’ll be to play EDGE and maybe provide depth at WILL.
So you think pure DE. Pass rush is always good (and needed), but really think replenishing the LOB to NLOB is a far better move this year, with a LB or WR/TE in the early mix.
We arent the pass rush team we have been in the past. We had our best run with Bennett and Avril being moveable chess pieces, Atm they have to be on the field 100% of the time and the fatigue is wearing on them and increases inuries % probablity. Referring to DE/LEO atm.
We still also need 2-3 New DT on our team. Right now its Reed and Jefferson only. Both year 2 players and then a bunch of reserve and practice squad guys.
It’s imperative that we don’t see Marsh on the field in 3rd and long situations. That’s the ideal solution to improving the pass rush. When you have four good pass rushers rushing the QB, you’re more likely to get more pressure on the QB than when you rush four players, even though only three of them are actually good at it. I don’t mean to bag on Marsh personally, because he’s great on STs and a good defender on early downs at sealing the edge and staying home (I’ve seen him make a few big plays doing these things), but make no mistake – this is not a guy who will ever hardly create any pressure on those all-important money downs. He’s going into his fourth year and only has 3 more career sacks than I do. I can live with him “rushing” the passer on third down if he’s only doing it because someone like Avril or Bennett are injured. That’s part of the game. But when he’s a first option to be one of those four rushers on paper… that’s unacceptable. You can tell Carroll feels the same based on their acknowledgement of wanting/needing another pass rusher relatively early in the draft.
Thank you for not just slamming Marsh and recognizing his talents: he is a ST stud and an edge defender. I doubt he ever would have seen the field on 3rd and long last year if Quinton Jefferson had been healthy. I feel they drafted him specifically for that role so that it could be:
Avril – Jefferson – Bennett – Clark
on passing downs. Hopefully this year we can see that in action!
I like Malik McDowell. He is a dominant force, at times. Big upside!
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/malik-mcdowell?id=2557970
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUuvIxjVpz8
Well, he was a dominant force with his one pass rush move that he does over and over again… until the MSU season started to drift and then he decided to well and truly mail it in.
Buyer beware… big time.
Far from a perfect prospect. But he has a lot of upside to be a dominant force. BTW, Thank you for awesome articles and insights this off season! My fav is Obi at Buffalo Nickel/Slot DB/TE neutralizer to bring some fear to the middle that was lacking with Lane.
Malin McDowell is the 2017 version of Robert Nkemdiche.
Great breakdown: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy7erbPJISQ
Love it! He would get the coaching and motivation he needs in the Seahawk locker room.
unless he does not have it in him
hard to coach greatness from someone willing to settle
Seahawks players are motivated before they get here. If they have trouble motivating, they don’t get to be Seahawks.
I just started typing this, then saw your post. They want self-motivated men in their locker room, pissed off for greatness. If McDowell had really fought through last season, put that team on his back even when things were getting rough, the Hawks would have been a lot more interested.
Cheers for the Kollmann link, Robert. He’s a fun guy to listen do, always enjoy his work. You go to that clip at 9:30 though, 1st and goal, where he absolutely gives up the run play… It’s the opposite of what the Hawks want.
I haven’t watched a lot of McDowell, so I’m not just going to claim things, but what’s his gap discipline like? We know that’s almost the first priority for the DTs in this defence.
So, with the data on the four edge rushers, it is unclear. However, if they are evaluating the results and correcting for performance, then maybe you just look at Clark and Irvin.
Marsh is not a complete failure, but not a star like they would prefer with a top pick.
I think that points to one of the linebackers drafted as an edge.
When everyone is healthy (a rarity in the NFL), we have three legitimate pass rushers for our four man pass rush.
Jefferson is a wild card because he could be that fourth piece. He’s the only one with any “real” pass rush potential after Avril, Bennett, and Clark. Getting one more legit rusher for those all important 3rd and long situations is imperative, imo.
Add a DB like King, Obi, Jackson, etc. in the first and then add a pass rusher like Watt (may have to trade a third rounder to move up in the second to get him) and an already good defense will be much improved.
Add to that the improvement on the OL in terms of experience added and natural progression of our own greenhorns on the line who have all started for a full season now. I like Glowinski and think he’s one of our best 5 OL but even if he doesn’t start… having a guy like him as “depth” will mean the OL is in so much better shape in ’17 than ’16, too.
Well said. I agree.
Even if Jefferson is the 4th piece, we need a successor waiting in the wings as a injury relief guy / up and coming talent (aka Clark rookie year)
Here is what is currently on the roster
Defensive End: Michael Bennett, Cliff Avril, Frank Clark, Cassius Marsh, / Tavaris Barnes
Defensive Tackle: Ahtyba Rubin, Jarran Reed, Quentin Jefferson, Rodney Coe, Garrison Smith, Shaneil Jenkins
This is What I would love to see after the draft on our roster
Defensive End: Michael Bennett, Cliff Avril, Frank Clark, DAeshon Hall, Samson Ebukam,
Defensive Tackle: Ahtyba Rubin, Jarran Reed, Quentin Jefferson, Eddie Vanderdoes, Roderick Henderson, Glen Antoine
I just ripped my pants visualizing this Defensive monster front.
I hope they resign Morgan. He’s a good SAM for 15-17 snaps per game. Anyone else notice that our defense was better when he was on the field, as opposed to how bad it looked when Coyle or JP was on the field? Morgan is also really good on STs. Just seems like a solid role player.
i am on board with getting a pass rusher in round 2 or 3.
I think they need a good Cb and at least one more db, plus a pass rusher
The defense needs playmakers from this draft and the offence needs stability. Plenty of playmakers on offence, just need the o line to hold up and be average.
Plus I think the defense needs to get a few players who can replace at least 2 stars that might not get resigned in the next 2 years
I agree, the Oline and the Dline are the foundation of a team. You need to constantly restock both of them. Especially with Bennett and Avril getting up there in age.
I would take Malik McDowell in the first, as an heir to Michael Bennett. I think on a good team, with good coaching, he can be an elite defensive lineman.
Too many ifs for a first round pick?
Feels like Tim Williams is being slept on in this sub. I’m not really aware of his work—just know he was dismissed early on in the process as “overrated.”
Is he worthy of an early 2nd round pick? Sounds like he’s got pass rushing ability…And you know how SEA loves their Alabama players.
I think that any pick after 30, Williams should be taken if teams are needing an Edge.
He obviously is talented but there is law breaking red flags and he super underwhelmed with his athletic testing. I wouldnt be surprised if he lasted to mid 2nd round.
How would this blog react to a draft that looked like this:
1. Malik McDowell, DT, Michigan State
2. Cordrea Tankersley, CB, Clemson
3. Daeshon Hall, DE, Texas AM
3. Isaac Asiata, C/G, Utah
3. (Trade down for a 4th and 5th)
4. Shaquill Griffen, S/CB, UCF
5. Brandon Wilson, S/CB, Houston
6. Javancy Jones, LB, Jackson State
7. Rod Henderson, DT, Alabama State
I would love that draft. Very much so, yes.
Not a fan of McDowell in the first, but as an entire draft looks great even with him.
I agree Smitty, give me Obi or Jackson in the 1st and I’d be on board
How about Josh Harvey-Jones in the 6th round rather than Obi?
Sorry, Josh Harvey-Clemons.
He’s horrible from what I’ve heard
As I stated earlier. Malik McDowell is the 2017 version of Robert Nkemdiche. Not interested in a player who has a history of mailing it in.
I don’t think it’s fair to say he’s this years Nkemdiche. Nkemdiche had major character concerns; McDowell just needs to be on a team where he doesn’t have to carry the entire defense.
McDowell needs more than that.
His attitude stank last season.
Don’t like Shaq Griffen. Watch his tape. Against a qb that can male throws he would be toast
Maybe a better fit at safety or nickel than outside corner. He had the speed though.
You need to add WR
I don’t like it. Only 1 offensive play (a guard) and 7 defensive players. So the Hawks go with basically the same offense as last year with a new RB and Guard?
Yes lets ignore lacy and all the oline Depth we signed and developed. What is different from 2 years ago when we had a 6+ game stretch of being the best offense in the league WITHOUT GRAHAM.
Our offense is top 10 in the league imo and with the additions and development I think we can easily stay top 5 with a healthy Offense.
That draft would be pretty scary. Not in a good way. MM should never even sniff the first round. He’s a huge risk. You have to hit on those first round picks. I’m not even sure how I would feel shot him in the second round.
Way off topic, for anyone who is a Thunderbird fan or hockey fan for that matter. Everett and Victoria about to enter there 5th overtime in game 6.
If John Schneider finds an edge rusher here is an option. You could slip Clark inside and bring in the edge rusher in passing situations.
+1 another explosive edge rusher could giv Seattle three interior rushers with Bennett, Clark, QJeff, and I wouldn’t discount Reed developing more there, as well.
I thought clark dropped weight last season because the extra weight needed to play inside more often was causing him injuries? I was under the impression he was edge now.
Just watching Eddie Vanderdoes for the first time
http://draftbreakdown.com/video/eddie-vanderdoes-vs-stanford-2016/
Seems to be the fastest get off on his Dline, only gets forward pressure never pusehd back – Closest thing would be him getting cut block.
I think he might be a good diamond in the rough with a bit of injury history that could be a late 3rd comp pick.
heres another guys comments from the film on Eddie V
“Vanderdoes looks more of a two gap NT/DE in a 3-4 defense. Against Texas he showed the play strength needed two anchor down against the double team combination block (1:54). In that game he also flashed a quick arm over move verses the guard and then used power to bull rush the center to the ground and get to the quarterback (0:46).
Vanderdoes Showed good football intelligence during the Stanford tape by using a variety of pass rush techniques. When studying the tape you can really see that he has refined his hand fighting and even added a spin move that he incorporates to get off the block.
Vanderdoes only shows adequate play speed on tape. He appears a bit heavy footed which is why he would be better suited to play in a 3-4 defensive system. If he were to be in a 4-3 front he would most likely be limited to a one technique defensive tackle that would have to come off the field during 3rd down or passing situations.
Vanderdoes does however show good mental and physical toughness down after down. He continually brings the fight to the offensive linemen during the course of the game.
Vanderdoes demonstrates good competitiveness by showing that he is willing to play until the whistle. You constantly see him pursuing to the ball and trying to make the play. He also showed to have a good motor with little to no loafs.”
Reese Odihiambho of this years draft.
Yeah, similar as in players that aren’t really known quantities at draft time due to injuries. He will go in a similar range also.
He’s a player that I am getting more intrigued with as the draft gets closer, and Seattle has been looking at DTs.
Wasnt Richard @ UCLA pro day?
And Pete was @ USC?
His 2015 game against Virginia was really impressive he carried less bad weight compared to this year and looked way more athletic. He was able to pentrate really well as well as stand up Olinemen and hold the POA. This year he looks even better at holding up double teams and driving guards into the backfield.
His comp to Ahtyba Rubin on Nfl.com makes sense, if you only watch this years tape, but he has so much more upside as a pass rusher.
Since you brought up the pass rush……………..
Most of the speculation here is that Seattle will target a CB in the first round.
Historically, the Pete and John’s strategy is to draft CB’s later and take the big boys early.
Maybe the reason is that you can’t coach up size.
They took DT Jarran Reed early last year and the rap on him was he was more a
run defender than a force on passing downs. I think we saw that turned out to be true.
So I can see them targeting a sorely needed pass rushing DT with the first pick that can push the
middle and get after the QB.
Seattle often bucks the anaylists and surprises everyone in the 1st,
so if DT Caleb Brantley from Florida is there at #26, he could very well be the pick.
He is compared to Aaron Donald on the NFL Draft Prospects page and there is no denying the impression
Donald has left on the Seahawks. I think they really want to aquire a guy like that also.
Some Brantley links:
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/caleb-brantley?id=2558007
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCG3gt-QgVw
I’m not sure who thought it was a good idea to comp Brantley with Aaron Donald on NFL.com but it’s possibly the weirdest comparison I’ve ever seen.
Brantley had a horrible combine, bombed during interviews and might struggle to crack round two.
Agree that Donald with Brantley is possibly the worst comp I’ve ever seen on that site.
Guys. There is a good chance if John Schneider trades down you might not like the pick. I don’t know if I want to take the 26th pick and trade down to get an extra pick.
I could really see our first 2 picks be in this:
R1…Obi/Jackson
R2…Jordan Willis
I like Jordan Willis a lot. But so do a lot of other teams. Don’t think he will still be on the board at 58.
We also need to give consideration to the side prospects project better at. Avril is a left edge only rusher and if we draft someone like Willis, who is also seems to be left only too, he’s going to get a lot of snaps outside of simply spelling Avril at times. nickel RE is ripe for the taking with Marsh getting most of the snaps as Clark has been rushing on the interior a lot alongside Bennett in obvious pass downs.
not* going to get a lot of snaps
Right end is our LEo Slot correct?’
I only recall seeing Clark / Marsh line up there.
Couple guys I haven’t heard much about since draft season started are Lotuleli and devote fields. What are your guys thoughts on those two.
Lotulelei didn’t declare, Fields not very good.
Fields attitude problems, questions about his love of football.
Pinpointing the characteristics of the pass rushers is not easy. Only 4 were picked in the 7 years and clearly the traits that justified picking Irvin and Clark as the first Seahawks pick in their respected draft classes do not necessary apply to day 3 picks like Marsh and Gwechum.
Also, Clark’s incredible numbers at 272 lbs should be evaluated differently than the 245-255 lbs Irvin/Marsh/Gwechum. (See Taco/Hall/Kpassagnone versus Watt/Bowser/Willis/Mckinnley)
I already banged the table enough regarding a pass rusher but unless some outstanding generational talent is there on day 1 (and there isn’t…) it is most likely a day 2 pick, probably a 3rd rounder.
This draft has a lot of EDGE talent to pick from. Some are the fast sub 255 lbs stricly EDGE rushers and some are larger and could shift inside (like Bennett) Taco, Kpassagone, Hall etc.
I wonder if they look for another Avril or another Bennett….
And remember Clark tested those numbers @ 272, now he is palying around 250 last season and probably for the future. The wieght loss and the pro diet + training regiment I bet he is even faster then he was @ the combine…
Wouldn’t touch MM. Basham, Bowser,Kpassongon then Hall for me. I know Pete loves length off the edge as he has alluded to in the past.
I think Kpassongon is a sleeper in this draft, as he is raw, there is so much untapped potential there.
I also think it’s unfair to lump him in with teditions edge players. In the NFL he’s a 34 lineman or a 3 tech.
He is an edge player though. I think you are going by size alone.
Tony Pauline’s draft day recap from this past week:
2017 Pro Day Recap: Week 4
By Tony Pauline, http://draftanalyst.com
The penultimate week of pro day workouts resulted in some sensational performances from players who were unable to run or participate at the combine. It also featured a few players who impressed scouts with their football skills rather than their athletic testing.
Patrick Mahomes/QB/Texas Tech: Mahomes didn’t do anything during his pro day except throw the football – and he threw it exceptionally well. Mahomes further confirmed he has the best arm in the draft, as he made a number of vertical throws which had scouts drooling. He took snaps from underneath center and dropped back into the pocket before throwing passes. Normally that’s not a big deal, but considering Mahomes almost solely took snaps from the shotgun formation at Texas Tech, NFL teams were impressed with the progress he’s showing transitioning to an NFL type of passer.
Marcus Maye/S/Florida: Possibly the most underrated safety in the draft, Maye was overlooked on the Florida secondary which boasted the likes of Jalen Tabor and Quincy Wilson. Yet Maye was brilliant on pro day, outshining his teammates, as he’s done in the past. He timed in the high 4.4s (4.47) in the 40 after tipping the scales at 207 pounds. He also ran the 3-cone in a clocking of 7.05. Maye then looked outstanding during position drills, showing a quick backpedal and smooth hip turn.
D’Onta Foreman/RB/Texas: Foreman was disallowed from running in Indianapolis by combine doctors after a small stress fractures was discovered in his foot. Despite pleas from his people and an offer to sign a waiver, combine officials refused to allow Foreman to workout. During pro day last week, the 234-pound ball-carrier got his revenge. His swiftly dashed across the 40 yards in times which ranged in the low-to-mid 4.4s (4.45), touched 33 inches in the vertical jump and 10-feet even in the broad. Foreman then looked good in position drills, especially catching the ball, where he cleanly caught everything thrown in his direction.
Trey Hendrickson/DE-OLB/Florida Atlantic: Hendrickson’s draft stock has been moving north since January after his stellar performance during Shrine Game practices. He turned in a terrific workout at the combine and looked good during Friday’s pro-day. Hendrickson looked smooth and very athletic running through defensive line and linebacker drills. He was equally effective moving in reverse as well as moving forward. Hendrickson could surprise on draft day.
Shelton Gibson/WR/West Virginia: Gibson’s forty time of 4.50 at the combine was probably one of the most disappointing marks of the entire week, as mostly everyone expected the speedy receiver to get under 4.4 seconds. He did exactly that at pro day on Friday, timing as fast as 4.36. That now puts Gibson in the conversation as a potential top-60 pick.
Keionta Davis/DE/Tennessee Chattanooga: Davis did not run at the combine, but was swift during pro day. His two 40 times, run with the wind and the other against the wind, averaged 4.70. His other marks included a 37-inch vertical jump and 10-foot-1 broad jump. All three marks were terrific for someone who measured 6031/268 pounds.
Eric Saubert/TE/Drake: The small-school tight end, who was a star during Shrine Week, has been suffering with a hamstring issue the previous two months which kept him from running at the combine. During pro day, Saubert proved the speed he showed during Shrine practices was no fluke, as he timed under 4.7 (4.65 to 4.69) in the 40 and also touched 35.5 inches in the vertical jump. This cements Saubert as a fourth-round choice.
Samsom Ebukam/DE-OLB/Eastern Washington: If you’ve never heard of Ebukam before reading this, you should become acquainted with him. Ebukam measured 6020/240 pounds, posted a vertical jump of 39.5 inches and a broad of 10-foot-10 after completing 25 reps on the bench. His 40 times were in the mid 4.4s, with the best being 4.44. Ebukam is an explosive defensive front seven player who projects as a pass-rush specialist standing over tackle or coming out of a three-point stance.
From the previous week, a couple interesting prospects:
Pat Ricard/DL/Maine: Draft junkies who watch film will be familiar with Ricard, as the explosive small-school lineman is always knocking blockers back off the line with his explosive first step. During pro day, he timed 5.00 in the 40 at 300 pounds, which is not a big deal. But his 10-yard split was an amazing 1.48, on both his attempts!! Ricard’s other marks also included 33 reps on the bench, 33.5 inches in the vertical jump and a short shuttle of 7.50. He put himself into the conversation as a late-round pick.
Jordan Simmons/OL/USC: Despite all the star power and potential top-45 picks on the field during the Trojans’ pro day, a seldom-used offensive lineman left the workout as the big winner. Simmons, who started just two games during his Trojan career, completed 26 reps on the bench and timed 5.14 in the 40 after measuring 6-foot-4, 339 pounds. While his testing marks were nothing spectacular, Simmons looked great during position drills and much better than the Trojans’ pair of draftable linemen, Zach Banner and Chad Wheeler. Does this mean Simmons will now be drafted? No, but he certainly will be signed as a free agent after he draft, which was not a certainty before pro day!
http://walterfootball.com/prodaytonypauline.php
Would like to see us draft Ebukam and Ricard late on day 3, and bring in Simmons as a UDFA to compete on the OL.
certainly love their physical attributes, but wonder why they are only considered low round picks or UDFA’s?
lack or tape, lack or production, or lack of competition where they played??
lack of Competition only.
Daeshon Hall remains for me one of the more intriguing player in the draft. Local kid who is a film rat and technician who loves the game. At Times he was better than Garrett, especially once he move full time to DE. And he’s got length and athletic ability as well
Wrote this Seahawks mock draft (v5.0) last night before seeing today’s article. Glad I ended up with one of Rob’s shortlist of pass rushers! Shoutout to Volume12 too for hyping a somewhat forgotton Brandon Wilson.
I really like the way this one turned out. Think it covers all the needs and provides clear upgrades to our current roster in starting positions early (R1-R2), while adding young competition and depth in the mid to later rounds (R3-R7).
Some may not like that I didn’t get a pure RCB, but I see Obi as more of a CB than a S anyway, and he would move out to there from his Buffalo spot if matchup dictates. That, having Lane in the mix to hold down the spot until Shead eventually returns, as well as the pay raise they gave Neiko Thorpe which says something as well, all make me comfortable that we have options and upside already on the roster as long as we nail the slot spot in the draft.
R1P26: DB Obi Melifonwu, Connecticut
It’s too obvious now. The look on their faces at the combine, PC not being able to sit still or contain an excited glance at JS. Now the recent comments by JS about SAM low snap percentage and PC about the 3-safety packages they tried with Browner. Hope to goodness he lasts and we don’t risk moving down, cause there is only Obi one.
Already outlined in the intro what I think his role in Seattle would look like.
*TRADE UP* into mid R2. The Bills only have 6 picks in this draft and look to add more. Say they are looking to add a CB in R2 to replace Gillmore, and they know plenty of options will still be available in late R2.
A R4 pick moved us up 7 spots in R2 last year, a R3 pick could reasonably move us up 14 spots. I hadn’t checked before, but just realized the ol’ trade value chart adds up exactly on this FWIW. Sweet!
From SEA: R2P58, R3P90 = 460 pts (320 + 140)
From BUF: R2P44 = 460 pts
R2P44: TE/WR Evan Engram, Ole Miss
Some of the best hands in the draft, attached to 33.5″ arms, running a 4.42 and jumping 36″ at 236lbs. He’s a typical Seattle efficient target and a mismatch waiting to happen for the opposing defense.
Upgrades Kearse as a possession WR and red zone threat and fills Brandon Williams’ spot in the TE room all in one pick, which could save an additional roster spot moving forward if/when Kearse is cut. Hedges for receiving weapons Graham and Richardson in the next couple years. That’s value.
Well-spoken in interviews, team captain, and received academic awards. Productive 65rec/926yd/8td his senior year. Anything else you’d like? Pick 44 would actually be pretty much his floor IMO, but not impossible in this loaded TE class. I also think the run on CBs will heat up early in R2, so that might help our cause as well here.
*TRADE DOWN* R3 comp for R4 + R5 picks. The Bengals have 11 picks, including 2 picks in each of Rds. 4,5,6,7. They see someone they like and decide to make a move up in order to rest peacefully at the end of day 2 knowing they secured their guy. Again, trade chart value matches up perfectly in this case FWIW:
From SEA: R3P102 = 92 pts
From CIN: R4P116, R5P153 = 91.8 pts (62 + 29.8)
R3P106: DE/DT Daeshon Hall, Texas A&M
“We are always looking to upgrade pass rush. Always.” -PC. VMAC visitor, and it’s easy to see why. Size and length for days with excellent short area agility. His SS time was 0.01 slower than Reddick, who is 20 lbs lighter. He doesn’t have the 10yd split in the 1.5s that they like from EDGE rushers, but nobody likely will at the end of R3 and it’s not an absolute must for an inside/outside guy ala Mike B. (1.62). He also brings the versatility the Hawks love:
“I can do a little bit of everything. I can stand up and rush, I can rush from the three- or the five-technique and I can play the run. I bring a lot of versatility to the game.”
This is not a 1-to-1 comparison or anything, but just to put into perspective his athleticism:
Sol.. Thomas: 6025, 273, 33 0/8 arm, 4.69 40yd, 1.66 10yd, 4.28 SS, 6.95 3C, 35 VJ, 10’6″ BJ, 30 BP
Daeshon Hall: 6050, 266, 35 5/8 arm, 4.76 40yd, 1.67 10yd, 4.38 SS, 7.03 3C, 36 VJ, 10’3″ BJ, 18 BP
Still needs development. He might also be available here because he had some shoulder issues and was a bit underwhelming the 2nd half of last season. Maybe teams will value him less as well due to the narrative that he benefitted from playing alongside Myles Garrett. Seattle won’t care! Did you know he is from Seattle too?
R4P116: OG Jermaine Eluemunor, Texas A&M
Now that they have said they are willing to kick Ifedi out to RT, they look for some plus size to put next to him at RG in hopes of making that right side of the line a road grader in the run game. This guy is 6-3 7/8, 334, 33.25 arms and strong as an ox (34 bench reps at combine). He scored a 3.05 TEF and 101.7 wTEF. But that’s just the first of the Seahawks’ boxes he checks.
“He’s just strong as a bull,” [Texas A&M OL Coach Jim] Turner said. “You could drive over him with a pickup truck. He’d probably just get up and brush it off and get back in the huddle.” Toughness, check.
Overcame adversity coming over from England and finding his way onto a roster, offered multiple wrestling scholarships, comes from A&M program like Ifedi and Joeckel, smart learner (went from JUCO to starting in a major college this past season and made big strides during the season). He checks every Seahawks box I can think of for OL. Read the full story here, if you haven’t already:
http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2017/story/_/id/18760459/how-texas-jermaine-eluemunor-crossed-ocean-england-nfl-draft
He is far from a finished product. This lack of experience pushes him down to us at the top of R4 and likely means he would need to take a year to sit and learn behind Aboushi, but it also means his potential has barely been tapped into as of yet.
(Backup plan: Isaac Asiata, if he is still around. We might tend to think he won’t be, and that’s fine. But hey, we were all convinced Connor McGovern was going R2-R3 last year and he lasted to the top of R5. Other teams don’t put as much value on our TEF warriors as we do. That said, it certainly is possible he go earlier and wouldn’t surprise me at all.)
R5P153: DB/KR/OW Brandon Wilson, Houston
We know the Hawks worked him out at pro day, and he’s a great consolation prize for missing out on Adoree Jackson at much less draft capital inversion. As I saw in one of his highlights videos, he was the only player to have multiple TDs in all 3 phases. Like Jackson, he is a threat to score whenever he touches the ball. At the same time, he offers much better bulk and strength than Jackson:
Adoree J.: 5110, 186, 4.42 40yd, N//A SS, N/A 3C, 36 VJ, 10’2″ BJ, N/A BP
B. Wilson: 5106, 198, 4.38 40yd, 4.41 SS, 7.07 3C, 41 VJ, 11’1″ BJ, 24 BP
He fills the role of covering smaller, quicker WRs in the slot if Obi is forced outside due to matchup. He can back up Earl at FS with his speed (his open hand “karate chop” running motion actually reminds me of Earl too…). Can also fill in for or split return duties with Lockett and have some special packages on offense to put the ball in his hands.
R6P210: LB Jimmie Gilbert, Colorado
This guy has length like KJ, and will need to continue to fill out his long frame (he has put on 15lbs already since the end of the season, so that is a good sign). But the instincts are there on tape and he moves well. Lead his team with 10.5 sacks in 14 games last season, not too shabby. Roster mirroring is real…
KJ Wright: 6033, 246, 35 0/8 arm, 4.71 40yd, 1.66 10yd, 4.35 SS, 7.21 3C, 34 VJ, 10’0″ BJ, 20 BP
Ji. Gilbert: 6042, 234, 34 1/8 arm, 4.64 40yd, ????? 10yd, 4.57 SS, N//A 3C, 37 VJ, 10’0″ BJ, 12 BP
But, you rightly point out, he doesn’t excel in the SS time like Rob pointed out is a usual in Hawks’ LBs. Well, you might have missed a little note from Pauline at Colorado pro day: he was dealing with a bad hamstring. “He timed 4.57s in the short shuttle but further injured the hamstring. He toughed it out during drills, but the hamstring issue kept him from being his best.” So he may actually have had a time similar to KJ’s if he had been healthy. Let’s hope this pushes him further down other teams’ draft boards!
R7P226: NT Glen Antoine, Idaho
The Hawks want to add bulk to the interior DL to fill the shoes Mebane left eating up blockers and keeping the LBs clean. This dude is one of the most powerful guys in the draft (3.2 TEF, 107.99 wTEF) and one of the few true nose tackles. Love his strength, violence, and gap control on tape.
Mebane: 6011, 309, 33 arm, 5.19 40yd, 4.65 SS, 7.94 3C, 24 vert, 8’10” broad, 24 bench
Antoine: 6005, 337, ??? arm, N/A* 40yd, 4.77 SS, 8.33 3C, 30 vert, 8’07” broad, 37 bench
*didn’t run 40 due to a heel injury.
He’s been showing off his athleticism on Twitter. You can check him out if you want to @BigG_Antoine.
Arm length might be a concern, but I just haven’t been able to find that data on him. (same with Yamen Sanders. If anyone finds it, please let us know!) But hey, he’s a R7 pick in my mock.
UDFA: SS Yamen Sanders, Montana
Who knows how long Kam’s health will hold out and whether McDougald might price himself out of Seattle’s range next year. A guy to bring into camp and see if he is worth developing.
Yam: 6040, 215, ??? arm, 4.56 40yd, 1.60 10yd, 42 vert, 10’4″ broad, 4.44 SS, 7.35 3C, 24 bench
Kam: 6032, 231, 33 arm, 4.59 40yd, 1.61 10yd, 32 vert, 09’8″ broad, 4.41 SS, 7.36 3C, 22 bench
Looks the part, had some nice highlights from his Junior year after transferring from Arizona and was the 6th-highest on the team in tackles, then hardly played this past season. I liked his highlights enough to give him a shot. Seattle was there at Montana pro day working out DE Caleb Kidder, so they might have been keeping an eye on Sanders as well. A ST prospect at very least.
Thanks for reading!
Great mock Sea Mode. My bad on the double-post
Do you think Engram is a clear and absolute upgrade over Tanner Mcevoy? Similar body types, similar mismatch potential.
Just like you said – clear and absolute upgrade, though McEvory might be the better blocker. Tanner is a UDFA who barely played receiver in college, while Engram is a top athlete with fantastic college production.
That’s a fair question. While McEvoy sort of has a similar athletic profile, I think he still needs a ton of development before he reaches Engram’s level. He was a QB and S at Wisconsin from what I understand. So while this means his football IQ and ceiling is probably pretty high, it’s going to take time to master his TE/WR position at a high NFL level and produce.
And not sure he will ever have Engram’s hands. (haven’t really seen enough of him to know how good his hands are, just a guess)
I also can’t find his 40 time anywhere to compare to Engram’s special 4.42.
Feels like a really solid draft. Confident in our current CB depth but allows us to fill up on done really big guys on both sides of the ball in a build for the future. I wonder if Adoree’ might possibly be available at 44..
a lot to like there, well done
Really like this draft. Well done.
If Obi/adoree aren’t there , and assuming jets didn’t take a QB and mahomet is still on the board, could we get jets 2 3rd round picks (70 and 107) and there 2nd (39) to allow them to jump up 13 spots to our 26 spot? i don’t know the trade value chart so this may be to much, but that would give us 2 2nds and 5 thirds. We could use on the thirds to move up in the second for Engram and one to trade back for a 4th and 5th just as you’ve show, and still have 3 thirds.
Their 70 would already be more than sufficient on its own, being an early R3 pick.
Here’s the chart. There were some minor errors as to late round picks a while back, but in general it’s good:
http://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart.asp?RequestTeam=sea
(P.S. Added to the “Useful Draft Resource Links” document posted below!)
thank you
I love this mock. Obi, Engram, and Hall? Sing me up!
I like it, especially if Engram lasted until 44, but I think that’s a pipe dream.
Would rather EW,s Ekuban than Gilbert.
Awesome mock Sea Mode
I’m worried about either Adoree or Obi being there at 26, i’m sure we’ll snag someone good though.
I wanted to clarify something that has been nagging me since the combine. The veiled excitement on the faces of JS, PC and KR during what was thought to be Obi’s 40 was actually a reaction to Fabian Moreau’s 40. At the bottom of the screen it shows that Jalen Myrick is about to run (in order: Melifonwu, Moreau, Myrick). The broadcast was live, and unless NFLN decided to cut to footage of the hawks’ booth from a few minutes earlier (Why? They didn’t provide a context or anything for it…) there’s no other explanation. Guys, I think those enthusiastic reactions are from Moreau.
3 round mock from Draft Analyst. Would be a pretty sweet haul for the Hawks
http://draftanalyst.com/three-round-mock-draft
Has King, Adoree and Reddick, in order, right after our pick. Ack. Obi in the early 2nd
Yeah I’m not sure awuzie would be the pick there, but I love what was available. Helps illustrate what has been said here many times already – There will be plenty of names to choose from at 26
#26
Seattle Seahawks
Chidobe Awuzie
DB
Colorado
Analysis: The Seahawks like to play five defensive backs and the versatile Awuzie can play corner, nickel and/or safety. The fact he scored a 35 on his wonderlic at the combine makes him that much more appealing.
58. Seattle: Charles Harris/DE-Edge/Missouri
90. Seattle: Isaac Asiata/OL/Utah
102. Seattle: Adam Bisnowaty/T/Pittsburgh
106. Seattle: Tanoh Kpassagnon/DL/Villanova
Awuzie is gritty enough.
Not sure he’s freaky enough though to make up for the lack of size.
Do you think Pauline’s mocks are more accurate as to which guys will go in R1 due to the info he gets? I’m not worried about the particular players he sends to each team (outside of maybe the top 10-15), but the team needs are interesting anyway.
And a few guys are either way too high on our board or he knows something we don’t yet…
63. Atlanta: Jarrad Davis/LB/Florida
I think Tony’s mocks are pretty much like everyone else’s — some right some wrong 🙂
I wouldn’t expect Davis to fall that far at all and I think Reddick will go a lot earlier too.
The fact he mentions that wonderlic score is very interesting. Is he tipping us off that this might be the most important factor for Seattle DBs?
We know how much of a premium they place on their physch profiles.
It was an unusual thing to highlight so there might be something in it. Either that or he’s heard teams like that specifically about Awuzie.
The Rams make out Big with Obi AND Godwin. That would be bad for the Hawks.
How do you find out the VMAC visitors list?
You can either scower remote corners of the internet for obscure hints during hours upon end… or you can just ask Volume12 for it. 🙂
Here was his last full update from a week ago, hopefully he can post again soon adding a couple more names that have become known:
https://seahawksdraftblog.com/would-the-seahawks-draft-back-to-back-cornerbacks#comment-319835
Add Daeshon Hall, DE, Texas A&M
NW OK St. CB Josh Norris- 5’11, 180 lbs. They worked him out. Kid is incredibly cocky.
And Arizona WR Trey Griffey (Jr’s son) has either a visit, interview, or workout lined up with them.
Sea Mode That was a great mock, well done. I especially think you’re on to something about the Bengles and the vast wealth they have in the second round on. I think that phone will be ringing as well.
Thanks. Actually, the trades are probably the least likely to actually happen that way, but it’s just an example of the kind of thought process that might go into finding a trade partner and the range I think Seattle might want to trade into.
In case it helps anyone else, I found this list helpful to visualize at a glance how much draft capital each team has:
http://www.upi.com/Sports_News/NFL/2017/03/13/2017-NFL-draft-order-Updated-list-with-total-picks-per-team/5481489432747/
Would love to round up “useful links” like this somewhere on the site. (although this one is less permanent than others, of course)
To get it started, I’ve opened a Google Doc here if anyone wants to share theirs. Later on, if Rob so chooses, maybe he could post a selection somewhere on the site as a permanent draft resource.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OHLEhdJ8x-xQ5IuN5GYPJza7xWybzMNWHt1KeFAq7cc/edit?usp=sharing
Brandon Wilson got brought up in the last thread as a late round CB. He’s a great athlete, has good production, love that he scored multiple TDs in all three phases of the game… What’s the knock on him that he’s going to fall that far?
Probably his size. He could be one of those guys that go higher than the draft media think. Every year the end of round 3 becomes very wild. Lots of 5th round prospects end up getting selected there. At the same time, that’s probably his range. Round 4-5 that is. End of round 3 wouldn’t be completely shocking though.
I absolutely love this dude. He’s a unique weapon. I know I’m repeating myself, but so versatile, aggressive, plays much bigger than his size, team captain. For me he’s a poor mans (not athletically) Tyrann Mathieu.
Rob, Thank you so much for your insightful analysis, you definitely do high quality work that would compare to any GM out there.
Seriously, with all of the detailed and insightful information you gather on prospects, I wonder if you are unintentionally making it harder on the Hawks to succeed in drafting. I would not be surprised if half (if not all) of the GM’s are faithfully reading your blog and getting ideas, thus making it harder for the Hawks to find their type of prospect. Its a wonder the Hawks can find any hidden gems now. 🙂
Ole Miss WR/CB Derrick Jones- 6-2, 187 lbs., with a 41″ vert, 4.44 40, and an 11″ broad jump. 😱