Bret Bielema, Wisconsin coach, speaks to KJR about the guy he coached last year.
Author: Rob Staton (Page 358 of 423)
Sports Broadcaster, Journalist and creator of Seahawks Draft Blog in 2008.
This guy could easily be next years #1 pick. I’m a big Matt Barkley fan, but Logan Thomas is the one quarterback who could go above him in the 2013 draft. Big arm, plus mobility, a little Big Ben to his play and he still has another level to reach. He impressed as a first-year starter but can still get even better. He’s at #2 on our top-40 watch-list for next year, but he could be the first name off the board if he declares.
What I take out of this:
– This is a genuine quarterback competition. Carroll has been nothing but honest about his quarterbacks, initially naming Matt Hasselbeck the starter in 2010 despite trading for Charlie Whitehurst, then naming Tarvaris Jackson the starter in 2011. If anyone had the job to lose at this stage, Carroll would say so. This isn’t the first time he’s referred to the Matt Leinart/Matt Cassel competition at USC. This appears to be a fluid situation.
– Carroll on Russell Wilson: “If you didn’t measure him, if there wasn’t a height issue, he’d have been right up there with the top three guys (Luck, Griffin III, Tannehill). No doubt in my mind. We need to see how that translates. There isn’t anything he can’t do…. when he gets here this weekend, I’m really excited to see how he looks and fits in. I’m not worried at all about him learning it, he’s a brilliant kid, so it’s just a matter of time until he can compete and I don’t know what that means for the fall – we’ll just have to wait and see. But it’s exciting and it’s a great position group for us.”
– I think Carroll wants Wilson to be right in the mix to compete for a start, they’re just not putting any extra pressure on the guy to make it so.
– It was stressed again that Bruce Irvin will be a LEO and that the pressure is on Chris Clemons to keep his slot. Assuming that happens, with Clemons being the teams most productive pass rusher the last two years, then Irvin begins his pro career at the Raheem Brock slot. Carroll sounded a little frustrated here, preempting the inevitable questions about Bruce’s role on the team. Irvin is being groomed to be a full time starter at the LEO.
– Irvin had a lunch with some of the players – including Red Bryant – after flying to Seattle for his introductory press conference.
– We anticipated Seattle would bring in a big physical back to spell Marshawn Lynch – and projected Robert Turbin to the Seahawks when we extended our mocks beyond the second round. Carroll confirms here that they weren’t looking for a change of pace back, they were looking for a keep the pace back. Or at least, keep the physicality back.
– Bobby Wagner will play inside linebacker but he’s going to have to compete (there’s a surprise) to start. KJ Wright will continue at the SAM with Leroy Hill at the WILL.
– Carroll believes in this group of receivers, at least to the point where it wasn’t an off-season priority. The Seahawks will hope several players can either get healthy or take the next step. Next years draft class is looking weak at receiver, so there’s no obvious solutions on the horizon if players don’t emerge.
– “Garbage” – Pete Carroll’s brutal assertion that he was “giggling like a schoolgirl” at Ryan Tannehill’s pro-day work out. Despite a lot of talk to the contrary, I understand Tannehill wasn’t even the #3 quarterback on Seattle’s board after Luck/Griffin III. They really, really liked the guy they took in round three and drafting a quarterback in the first two rounds was never a realistic consideration. They were all about the pass rush in round one.
Interesting note on Bruce Irvin, the 1st 1st rounder to sign. Jets and Steelers had a draft-deal essentially done for NY to drop back …
— Jason La Canfora (@JasonLaCanfora) May 8, 2012
Jets were gonna take Irvin or Coples in the mid-20s, and Steelers would take DeCastro at 16. Once Seattle took Irvin at 15, Jets pulled out — Jason La Canfora (@JasonLaCanfora) May 8, 2012
PFT broke the news today that Bruce Irvin had agreed terms with the Seahawks, becoming the first 2012 round-one pick to sign a contract. The deal is worth $9.34m fully guaranteed over four years, with over $5m in bonuses. The news is less of a huge relief as it was in the past, with the rookie pay scale all but ending the long hold-outs witnessed pre-2011. Eight rookies in total agreed terms today, including second round pick Bobby Wagner and third round quarterback Russell Wilson.
Today we’ll look at Irvin’s senior tape against Louisville after previously studying his performances against Pittsburgh and Clemson.
One of the things we’ve looked at so far is how West Virginia used Irvin, schematically and in down/distance. By now everyone’s aware of the 3-3-5 formation the Mountaineers used and Irvin’s admittance that he didn’t exactly fit within that system. Irvin: “We ran a 3-3-5 stack defense, I was 235 pounds and you got me in a three technique? I can’t help you. You got me going against two 300-pounders and I’m only 235? I don’t know anybody who could play the run against two 300-pound guys at 235 pounds.” The thing I always come back to is this – everybody knows it was a bad fit for Bruce. He admits it, the Seahawks won’t use him in a three-man front and most people who watch WVU tape can see it wasn’t a great fit. Yet he still had over 20 sacks in two years. So what will he do in a position or scheme which suits him down to the ground?
While he was as exclamation point to the pass rush and not used as an every down player at WVU, it’s time the critics realised this is just the way the game is going. If Irvin has ten or more sacks next year as a rookie specialist, few people will be disecting the decision to make him the first pass rusher off the board. Greg Cosell today called the mocking of Seattle’s choice as, “so absurd it’s laughable” before breaking down why:
“It could easily be argued based on tape study that Irvin was the most explosive edge pass rusher in the draft. Think about that for a minute. The most important defensive priority in today’s NFL is rushing the quarterback. You can go all the way back to Hall of Fame coach Bill Walsh in the 1980s; Walsh, always a step ahead, said that fourth quarter pass rush was the key to winning. His theory has evolved to the point where it encompasses all four quarters. Thus, the Seahawks selected a player with explosive attributes at a premium position.
“What about the argument that he’s not a “three-down player”? That’s another use of “conventional wisdom” that does not withstand further scrutiny. Irvin will likely be on the field close to 60 percent of the plays in an increasingly pass-first league. In the NFL, if you cannot defend the pass, you will not win. Last year, the San Francisco 49ers selected Aldon Smith with the seventh pick in the first round. I watched every 49ers defensive play in 2011. Smith did not play more than 20 snaps in the base 3-4 defense. He was exclusively a sub-package player, playing only in nickel and dime personnel. He had 14 sacks in the regular season, and two more in the playoffs. Was he a poor draft choice because he was not a three-down player? Please, let’s think before we react.”
Aldon Smith too approximately 46% less snaps than Von Miller last year, but still had more sacks. Against Louisville Irvin took 30 total snaps, which is 13 less than he took against Pittsburgh and three more than against Clemson. Yet the great thing about the Louisville game is it kind of sums up Cosell’s argument quite emphatically. Irvin’s first snap in the game doesn’t come until the score is already 14-7 to Louisville with 1:21 remaining in the first quarter. Irvin’s first snap is a sack for an 11-yard loss. He stays on the field for 3rd and 19, and gets another sack. Two plays in one entire quarter, two sacks.
The Seahawks have enough defensive lineman who can stop the run. They need a pass rush to get teams off the field. If Irvin can team up with Chris Clemons as a rookie it doesn’t matter if he only plays two snaps in a quarter as long as he can have an impact.
First down snaps: 11
Second down snaps: 11
Third down snaps: 8
Fourth down snaps: 0
This is the first tape I’ve studied where Irvin is on the field for 1st and 10 more than any other down/distance. The two sacks are classic Irvin, beating the tackle to the edge and getting to the quarterback. The second sack is the kind of play that will really appeal to the Seahawks – flashing the explosive get-off, the ability to find the edge before the tackle can adjust and then showing impressive lean to turn at a seemingly impossible angle to make the play. Balance, speed, execution – something the Seahawks lacked last year aside even with Clemons playing the majority of downs.
When Irvin talks about playing the three, look at 1:32 in the video when he lined up as an interior pass rusher. There’s essentially a center, guard and tight end teaming up to block him. It’s almost unexplainable that he’d be put into that position, but WVU did use a lot of creative blitzes and looks and actually made a sack on this play via the left edge rusher with the extra attention Irvin received to the right-center.
Irvin has two staple moves – the speed rush to the edge and the inside counter. He’ll drive and plant his foot into the ground to give the impression he’ll go outside, before sidestepping inside to attack the center. I don’t buy-in to the theory that he’s too weak to engage a tackle, because there are examples of a capable bull rush or successful brawl. In this video though, the left tackle had his number when he got into his pads. This will be the greatest test Irvin has to deal with if he’s to become a permanent LEO pass rusher. Tackles in the NFL will be quicker and trying to counter will be more difficult. Can he cut back with a punch to the chest to jolt the tackle? Because if the tackle always covers the inside but can kick out well enough, he could be dominated at times. Can he adopt a spin move so that when he fakes the edge rush he can avoid contact and break into the middle in a more fluid manner without sidestepping/dancing? Developing a spin move could be a major positive for Bruce.
I like the play at 3:25 where he dips inside and spots a hole to break on the quarterback. Seattle could find some fortune having Irvin dip into the interior from Clemons’ side similar to the way San Francisco uses the two Smith’s. Justin holds the edge, Aldon loops back around and attacks from the interior. Seattle could use the extra attention given to Clemons in order to similarly enhance Irvin’s ability to have an impact. I also like the way Irvin reads the play, it’s an underrated quality he has. Seattle struggled against mobile quarterbacks on the bootleg or PA and getting out of the pocket. Irvin should help here because he reads the game very well in space, takes good angles and will limit the area in which a quarterback is prepared to move into.
Anyone who says Irvin can’t hold up against the run needs to watch the play at 3:49. He blows through the guard and knife’s through from the left end position and destroys the play for a loss. Irvin’s strength for his size is deceptive and while he won’t play with the same level of ferocity on every down, it’s worth noting that he plays stronger than most 235-245lbs lineman.
Bray was listed at #31 on our 2013 watch-list. For all 2013 prospect videos, click here or select the ‘Game tape’ tab on the menu bar. Bray is an outside bet to declare for next years draft after missing considerable time in his first two seasons as a starter. However, a good 2012 could push him to turn pro. This isn’t his best game from 2011 but he does need time on the field to improve.
They could be father and son...
The Seahawks are running out of needs to address. They have a left tackle. They have an offensive MVP with star quality. They have a defense that now includes pass rush + linebackers + secondary. Only one big question mark remains, and it’s a biggie.
Quarterback… How I’ve missed talking about quarterbacks over the last four months since it became obvious Seattle was drafting a pass rusher in round one.
The subject has kind of been pushed to one side, and not just because it was never a realistic option for the Seahawks at #12. Matt Flynn was evidently enough of a ‘name’ to satisfy those craving some kind of hope for the future. It probably helped that like a previous Seahawks starter, Flynn was a late round pick from the Green Bay Packers who spent time backing up a brilliant veteran. Not that this will have any bearing or relevance on whether Flynn will be a success like Matt Hasselbeck. This is a very different situation and environment.
The Seahawks also added a third round pick into the mix with Russell Wilson. And since they drafted Wilson, there’s been widespread grinning among the teams front office. Fans are hoping this is the guy if Flynn doesn’t cement the job, if not in 2012 than certainly beyond that.
Pete Carroll is again talking about competition and he’s comfortable with that. He’s thriving on that. Who wins the job? Who knows? Is Russell Wilson actually competing to start, or competing to be the #2? Again, who knows? Most people expect Matt Flynn to get his shot in 2012, which isn’t unreasonable given the investment made during free agency. If nothing else it’s a healthier competition this year than in 2011 when Tarvaris Jackson was handed the job as soon as he walked into the building.
However, this continuous competition is part of the problem. Unless Jackson retains his position at the starter, it’ll be three different starting quarterbacks in three years under Carroll, plus a failed project in Charlie Whitehurst. I’m not sure Seattle can just keep rolling through guys every year until one sticks. It kind of sounds like a good idea, but eventually you need some consistency back there. Eventually, you need to make a long term commitment and say, “this is our guy and we’re going to build around him.” Sometimes a quarterback needs more than one season to prove himself. The low cost level of Seattle’s additions so far has made each quarterback disposable and therefore easy to remove as a starter.
Even if Seattle’s offense will be based around the run, recent history suggests the Seahawks will need a quarterback of a certain quality to become consistent challengers. We can have a debate about a lasting need at receiver or on the offensive line, but Seattle’s #1 priority in the aftermath of the 2012 draft is still finding a long term option at quarterback.
That’s not to say I criticise what the team has done so far. In three drafts, they’ve simply not had the chance to draft ‘the one’. Jimmy Clausen, Tim Tebow and Colt McCoy were not the answer in 2010. The 2011 group of quarterbacks didn’t offer much hope and I still think the team was correct not to spend the #25 pick on Andy Dalton. In 2012, three quarterbacks left the board before the #8 pick. You can’t magic a quarterback out of the sky. However, they have to be prepared. One day they will get a chance and they need to be ready to take it, even if the prize comes with a certain price.
Wilson could be the guy. But here’s the problem and the point I was trying to make when suggesting he should be considered as a starter in 2012. If the Seahawks start Flynn and he turns out to be another Whitehurst or Jackson, I’m not convinced they can avoid going big on a quarterback unless it’s completely impossible. All it took for Dallas to move from #14 in the draft to #5 was a second round pick. Unless there’s a top-heavy situation at quarterback this year like we saw with Andrew Luck and Griffin III, the Seahawks would have to consider making a similar move if a player like Matt Barkley is available in that 3-10 range.
In doing that, you’ll never know how good Wilson could be. Maybe they’re comfortable with that situation? Maybe Wilson’s grade made him too good to pass and insurance in case the Seahawks can’t go big in 2013? Yet given that both Carroll and Schneider have gushed about the guy’s potential, I would’ve thought they’d seriously believe he has a chance to start in the league. And in that case, wouldn’t they want to know what he can do before they spend picks on a Barkley or Logan Thomas?
The idea of trying Flynn in 2012 and then maybe Wilson in 2013 – without drafting a quarterback who is instantly recognised as ‘the guy’ would be difficult to stomach if a pro-active move was conceivable.. I appreciate the philosophy of this franchise, the competition mantra, the background of John Schneider and Pete Carroll and the way they’ve dealt with quarterbacks in the past with a lot of success. But I also appreciate that this is a quarterback driven league, even if you do want to dominate with the run.
Maybe Flynn does a great job? Maybe Wilson wins the gig and makes geniuses of Seattle’s front office? Or maybe the Seahawks go into next years draft in the same position they’ve entered the last three drafts – with an unclear situation at QB. If that’s the case, there’s going to be a lot of pressure to find a solution. It will be, after all, the 20th anniversary of the teams last first round investment in a quarterback next year. And that is why it’s still the teams greatest need. No position requires long term thinking quite like the role of a quarterback. Until the Seahawks start going into an off-season programme with an unquestioned starter at the position, it will go on remaining the biggest need… and it aint close.
Nobody else is talking about this guy and I’m shocked. Stunned. I ranked Simon at #14 on my 2013 watch-list. For all 2013 prospect videos, click here or select the ‘Game tape’ tab on the menu bar.
Outspoken? Or just misunderstood?
Bruce Irvin on the 3-3-5
Over the last few days we’ve looked at two Bruce Irvin games (more on the way) and critiqued how badly he fit West Virginia’s 3-3-5 defensive scheme. It was interesting to hear Irvin talk about his frustration in the system, when speaking to KJR after the draft. Thanks to Danny Kelly at SB Nation/Field Gulls for breaking down a few quotes:
“No disrespect to my coaches [at West Virginia]. They emphasize on stopping the run, and they were good at it. They developed me more as a player in my final year, but as a far as pass rushing – that wasn’t their thing. And I’m not the only player who would say that. It’s no disrespect to them but my coach wasn’t a pass-rushing coach . . . And like I said, just imagine if I get a coach who actually teaches me moves and teaches me counter moves and how to set up people. Man, I could be a double-digit sack guy in this league for a long time.
“It ain’t that I can’t play the run, it’s how they wanted me to play the run. We ran a 3-3-5 stack defense, I was 235 pounds and you got me in a three technique? I can’t help you. You got me going against two 300-pounders and I’m only 235? I don’t know anybody who could play the run against two 300-pound guys at 235 pounds. But you put me in a five technique and you ask me to hold center edge and don’t let anything get outside of me, I can do that. I think people just kinda misunderstood and didn’t really know the basis of our defense. We were the only team that ran a 3-3-5 stack in the country. I was a different type of player and that’s not a typical defense for me, but I feel like I was still pretty productive – 23 sacks in two years, so you know, I made the best out of the situation.”
First of all, I don’t mind that Bruce is being honest about the scheme. He’s not revealing any secrets here, because it’s blatantly obvious the system didn’t match his skill-set. In Seattle, his main responsibility will be rushing the passer. In year one, it may be his only responsibility as he adopts the Raheem Brock role. As time goes on, he’s going to need to avoid being a liability against the run as a full-time LEO, but he’s doesn’t need to be Red Bryant at the same time. He’s shown he’s comfortable in read/react versus the run and he’s harder to move than you’d expect for a guy his size. But it’s still one of the things he’ll need to work on.
I am hoping, however, that Bruce will keep future complaints to himself. People don’t need to hear reasons why the coaches got it wrong. Unless Irvin becomes an immediate all-pro, he’s going to experience growing pains in the NFL like any other rookie. There’s being honest, and there’s also getting on with the job. But then he’s not going to be lining up in a three man front, taking on a guard/tackle combo nearly every play and still being asked to make 20+ sacks for the Seattle Seahawks. So we’ll cut the guy some slack.
Russell Wilson’s story
Browns and Rams still drafting like the Browns and Rams
Sure, this is a Seahawks Draft Blog. But there are two other teams out there that I found pretty interesting this year.
One is division rival St. Louis, undergoing yet another re-start and re-build but benefiting from a bounty of picks courtesy of the Washington Redskins. The other is Cleveland, controlled by Mike Holmgren – a man many Seahawks fans wanted to see return to Seattle as some kind of football czar before the appointment of Pete Carroll.
St. Louis Rams
When the Rams traded with Washington for the rights to Robert Griffin III, they put themselves in position to rebuild a team that’s been associated with rank bad failure for years. I’m sure everyone on the blog wishes the best of luck to Jeff Fisher…
St. Louis have two first round picks in 2013 and 2014 and came into this years draft with the #6 pick and a pair of second rounders. They probably felt pretty good about that position. Then the trades started to happen. First, Cleveland swapped picks with Minnesota to secure Trent Richardson. If you believe the speculation – and I do – Fisher was very fond of Richardson. Never mind, if they want an offensive playmaker at least Justin Blackmon remains on the board.
The Vikings seemingly tried to trade down again from #4 but ended up settling for Matt Kalil – the obvious choice for that franchise. So that leaves Morris Claiborne for Tampa Bay, right? Wrong. They flip picks with Jacksonville, who for the price of just a fourth rounder secured the top-ranked receiver in the draft. Cue Jeff Fisher being caught on camera slamming his glasses onto a table in the Rams war room.
That move clearly caught St. Louis by surprise and they didn’t like it one bit. The reaction was a big trade down the board – eight spots in fact – before they finally drafted Michael Brockers. The move secured another second round pick, but it left the Rams without that big-time receiver for quarterback Sam Bradford.
Here’s what I don’t get about the Rams draft. Cleveland identified Trent Richardson as the guy they wanted and eliminated any doubt by trading up to #3. It cost them a fourth, a fifth and a seventh round pick, but they didn’t risk missing out. For the price of a fourth round pick, St. Louis had the chance to make a similar deal with Tampa Bay to get Blackmon. But they didn’t. They let Jacksonville get their guy.
If they’d stumped up the dough, they would’ve been looking at a two-round collection of: Justin Blackmon, one of Derek Wolfe/Kendall Reyes/Jerel Worthy and Janoris Jenkins. Instead they got Michael Brockers, Brian Quick, Janoris Jenkins and Isaiah Pead. Quick has potential and size, but he’s untested at the highest level of college football. Brockers also has a lot of potential, but is he significantly better than the other defensive tackles available in round two?
Tampa Bay weren’t the only possible trade partner either. Talk to Minnesota. Had they moved down to #6 – and with Blackmon going at #4 – there appears to be little chance Kalil would’ve left the board before the Vikings were back on the clock. And there appeared to be some enthusiasm in Minnesota to move back again.
I kind of feel like the Rams fudged this draft a little bit, despite a great opportunity to get this offense moving in the right direction. There were five top-end offensive players in this draft – Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin III, Matt Kalil, Trent Richardson and Justin Blackmon. The Rams came away with none of them, despite owning first the #2 pick and then the #6. For the sake of Isaiah Pead and a fourth round pick, I’m not convinced they did the right thing here. In a year when they had three high picks, they needed to come away with more than Brian Quick on offense. Sam Bradford might not enjoy 2012 any more than he did 2011.
Cleveland Browns
I love the move Cleveland made for Trent Richardson. As fans and followers of the draft, sometimes we can over-value picks. I appreciate that the Seahawks front office prides itself on working the magic in the later rounds, but sometimes you’ve got to tighten the belt and just make a move to get a special player. Kudos to Cleveland for being aggressive to ensure they got the third best player in the draft.
At the same time, I think an argument can be made for going in a different direction. Simply because of that #22 pick.
They’ve drafted well in the early rounds under Holmgren and Tom Heckert. The trio of Joe Haden, Phil Taylor and Jabal Sheard were all superb picks for the defense. On offense they have little in terms of playmakers, but they have Trent Richardson. Like I said, love the pick and the decision to move up and get him. But part of me just wonders – if you were always going to take Brandon Weeden at #22, why not also draft Justin Blackmon in round one? You’re betting a lot on a 29-year-old rookie quarterback hitting the ground running, otherwise he’s an automatic bust.
Weeden will be expected to start immediately. He’s going to try and not suck throwing to Greg Little, Mohammed Massaquoi and Ben Watson. Good luck, Brandon.
The two Oklahoma State stand-outs have a connection and an understanding. Weeden-to-Blackmon could’ve worked quicker than most other QB-to-WR combo’s. I personally wouldn’t have drafted Weeden that early, so I would never need to be in a position to fight the Richardson pick. But clearly Cleveland believed in Weeden and for those reasons, I maybe would’ve backed that judgement by hooking up the former team-mates.
The question is can Weeden become even a modest starter with the weapons at his disposal? That’s when the age becomes a factor because younger quarterbacks get some time. Weeden doesn’t have that luxury. There’s not getting away from how important it is for this guy to start fast because of the age factor. The Holmgren/Heckert partnership may not get another chance to draft a quarterback in round one, they have nailed their colors to the mast on this one. So they need to get it right.
There’s also an argument that suggests if Richardson dominates – which is possible – it’ll too make life easier for Weeden. I get that. But it’s maybe asking a lot to expect Richardson to carry the offense on his back to the extent Little/Massaquoi becomes a threat, especially when Cleveland has six games against Baltimore, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati. Again, with a younger quarterback you can maybe afford to be patient to target another receiver in the future. I repeat… Weeden is 29 this fall. He needs to succeed now.
If the Browns really had to add a new running back to the roster, they could’ve realistically dipped back into round one. Denver merely flipped fourth round picks with Tampa Bay to trade out of the first. The Buccaneers took Doug Martin with the #31 pick. Had Cleveland not traded up for Richardson and taken Blackmon at #4, they would’ve had a cluster of picks to make a similar bargain move. Suddenly you’re looking at an offense containing Weeden, Blackmon and Martin. However good Trent Richardson is, that trio would probably make life easier for Weeden. Just my take on it.
Of course it’s very easy to sit here after the event and pick holes in the these two teams. These things never go according to the script. Both the Rams and Browns could prosper and make this write-up a bit of a faux pas on my behalf. But I did find both teams pretty intriguing last week.
Rant over. Back to the Seahawks.
