I wanted to put this down before the combine — then reflect on it afterwards to see what has changed. Some of the names below contain hyperlinks. The links take you to individual articles written about the player in question. So if you want more info/opinion, click on the name.
Tier One
Saquon Barkley (RB, Penn State)
Quenton Nelson (G, Notre Dame)
Tremaine Edmunds (LB, Virginia Tech)
Bradley Chubb (DE, NC State)
Vita Vea (DT, Washington)
The five freakish difference makers in the class. Barkley could be the most explosive offensive player to enter the league in a generation with a jump-cut to die for. Nelson will likely have a Steve Hutchinson impact on the league. Edmunds is the most unique player in the class — incredible size, length, versatility. There isn’t another player like him in the league.
Chubb has the same bloodlines as cousin Nick and we know how incredible he is as an athlete. Vea’s mobility and quickness at 340lbs is shocking and can only truly be appreciated watching him live. All five players should go in the top-10.
Tier two
Sam Darnold (QB, USC)
Josh Rosen (QB, UCLA)
Ronald Jones II (RB, USC)
Billy Price (C/G, Ohio State)
Isaiah Wynn (G, Georgia)
Tim Settle (DT, Virginia Tech)
Maurice Hurst (DT, Michigan)
The quarterbacks both have talent and upside but some question marks. Darnold has incredible potential but isn’t anywhere near as refined as DeShaun Watson a year ago (Watson was criminally underrated pre-draft by the media). Rosen technically looks the part but there are questions about his personality.
Jones II is a Jamaal Charles clone and a player with legitimate star quality. An exceptional prospect. Price is intense, plays with occasional reckless abandon and goes after the opponent. He sets the tone up front. Wynn reminds me of Zack Martin at Notre Dame. He isn’t the biggest, he isn’t the most explosive or athletic. He is just really fundamentally sound and tough to beat. He doesn’t make mistakes.
Settle won’t run like Vita Vea and he doesn’t carry his weight as well. Yet as a pass rusher it’s quite incredible to watch a player of his size swim/rip like he does, not to mention his excellent get-off. He’s the best 330lbs pass rusher you’ll see in a long time. Maurice Hurst is a classic three-technique with great quickness off the snap, solid hand-technique and a consistent ability to impact games from the interior. Players like Hurst are rare.
Tier three
Lamar Jackson (QB, Louisville)
Leighton Vander Esch (LB, Boise State)
Roquan Smith (LB, Georgia)
Minkah Fitzpatrick (S, Alabama)
Taven Bryan (DT, Florida)
Jackson has a rocket arm, showed major improvement as a touch passer in 2017 and is capable of being a Michael Vick-style playmaker. He is Vick. And for some reason people aren’t giving him his dues. Fitzpatrick on the other hand is the opposite — a little bit overrated — and more likely to go in the 10-15 range than the top-10.
Vander Esch is a modern day linebacker. He has the size to play inside at middle linebacker in any scheme, the range and mobility to run to the sideline and the instinct to be a major playmaker. In a couple of years he could be up there with Wagner and Kuechly as the best in the game. Smith gets a lot of top-15 love but you have to remember — he’s not a burner and he’s going to weigh about 225lbs. I like him as a player but we have to acknowledge he won’t fit every team or scheme. Smith will be a first rounder and likely a very useful pro but probably won’t go as early as some are projecting.
Bryan has incredible upside and while he might need a redshirt year to work things out, he has inside/out rush ability and the potential to be an absolute game-wrecker.
Tier four
Rasheem Green (DE, USC)
Derwin James (S, Florida State)
Marcus Davenport (DE, UTSA)
I watched some of Green this week and came away impressed with his physical potential. Whether he can take it to the next level and continue to grow remains to be seen but he has sensational size and length and carries his weight extremely well. He ran a 4.44 short shuttle at the Nike combine at 290lbs and achieved a 113.04 SPARQ rating. He could be a big time riser after the combine.
James will likely have an explosive combine too — testing well in the jumps. Yet he is what he is — a box safety that didn’t impact many games with big plays. I’ve said before, his tape is a bit boring. He has appealing character traits and size. He’ll go in round one. How early remains up for debate.
Davenport didn’t perform as well as hoped at the Senior Bowl and came across as a bit shy and retiring. He too might need a redshirt year and strong coaching/guidance. Yet his tape and physical ability warrants a first round pick.
Tier five
Da’Ron Payne (DT, Alabama)
Kerryon Johnson (RB, Auburn)
Rashaan Evans (LB, Alabama)
Calvin Ridley (WR, Alabama)
Baker Mayfield (QB, Oklahoma)
Payne is the strongest D-line prospect in the class with the size and bulk to act as a key run defender. He showed, especially in the two Playoff games, he also has some pass rush potential. Johnson (when healthy) was leading Auburn to a possible National Championship. His upright running style could invite injury and he’s not the quickest but he runs with authority, he’s tough and he has fantastic patience in the backfield.
Evans plays with his hair on fire and doesn’t hit, he hammers opponents. The combine will be crucial for his stock. He’s likely a late first rounder. Ridley isn’t big or particularly fast but he’s adept at getting open and he’s consistent. Mayfield won the Heisman and is clearly a playmaker but he lacks the physical tools of the other top quarterbacks available.
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Rob did you watch Isaac Yiadom?
I haven’t studied him
I’m seeing a lot of interesting mid-round cornerbacks we could potentially take to develop. Isaac Yiadom, Brandon Facyson, Holton Hill, Quenton Meeks, Kevin Toliver. Would be interested in a breakdown on who would fit us the best.
Will do — but it’ll be after the combine when we have the info on size/length.
Looking forward to it. I’m getting pretty antsy for the combine now lol. Really appreciate all your work Rob. Don’t think I’d be this invested without it.
+12 amazing stuff and I think makes everyone more passionate Seahawks fan.
Not Rob, but I like him. Long press corner that can break down plays in space. Sound tackler. Fits the mold. Thought he was one of the standout DBs down in Mobile during SR bowl week.
A guy I’m curious about if he slips into day 3 is Florida St’s Tavarus McFadden. Former 4 or 5 star recruit, amazing 2016, fell off for whatever reason this year, and needs some work, but he has day 1 traits if he can figure it out.
Tnx Vol12. My friend tells me a lot about Isaac and based on that he is a perfect fit for us.
Agree about Yiamdom 100%
I brought up McFadden the other day Vol as a sleeper. What do you think of him as a potential FS he is physical and I think he played some in college. I think he will be a day #2 guy but if he is there in the 4th might be a steal.
Thank you Rob I have been thinking about this I hope for your feedback if Sheldon Richardson walks hopefully not in are division. Could we trade are third round draft choice next year knowing that we will have a future comp pick for him next year.or would you give Earl and Richard one more year and blow it next year knowing that you might have 3 extra comp picks
I wouldn’t want to deal any more R1-3 picks ahead of time. I think we’ve seen they’ve been burned with that.
Look up Alphonso Smith. Earl Thomas is better than him.
Not a top 25 guy, but is there a more identical WR to P-Rich than Boise St’s Cedrick Wilson? That kid is the definition of an explosive deep threat. Excellent route runner too.
Richardson never turned into the deep threat he was billed as IMO, doesn’t play as fast as his 40. Does play much bigger than his size though, give him that.
Is there ANY chance the browns do not take a QB with one of their top 1st round picks?
Just for sh*t and grins … they go Barkley #1 and B. Chubb #4
I’d take Chubb #1. Him and Quenton Nelson are the 2 best players in this class IMO.
Could you see the Browns trading their 2nd round picks to get into #18 pick range and taking Jackson? The knocks on Jackson seem to be the same as a certain other QB that went to the Texans a year or so ago….. he appears to be a winner… and winners win.
I’m not entirely buying in to the “reports” the Browns are going to take a QB. I trust the guys running their team now and they do not let this type of information slip….. and their picks will have a tremendous impact on how the 1st round plays out…. including the possibility of 4 QBs going top 10…. which would be ridiculous.
I guess I secretly want to see absolute chaos at the top of the first round, throwing everyone’s predictions in the garbage can… and making for exciting drama day #1 of the draft.
If Mcloughan has any say I guarantee Nelson is a Brown.
I think it’s Nelson and Barkley.
Im not a big fan of this DL class to be honest.
Im really starting to like the receivers though
Barkley at #1 would be bad. I’d take Mayfield #1 and then trade out of #4 to a team that wants to jump ahead of the Broncos/Jets for a QB, if they can. If stuck at #4 I’d consider Nelson, Barkley and Chubb, depending on who is still there.
In terms of quality, not necessarily where I would take them.
You draft Chubb #1
Taking the best player in the draft first overall is NOT bad. They should take him 4th. The difference between a QB at one or four this year is really picking nits. Also, say they throw a ton of money at cousins and he accepts. Barkley, trade down a spot or two and get Nelson, now you have an offense resembling a force.
Joe Thomas, Bitonio, Nelson
Stud back
Josh Gordon to start the season
David Njoku year two
Defense is already respectable. That’s a team that can do some things.
Not the best player in the draft, IMO. He’s very good, but I think all the caveats re RB still apply. If Dorsey takes him 1st he should be fired. Only teams that should even try to sign Cousins are Arizona and Buffalo. Other teams have other, better options, IMO.
It’s all opinion, but you clearly have a bias against a running back at that spot. He’s a better football player than the other guys are. They may flash potential, buts he’s the guy who has the talent and puts it together week in, week out. He’s a better player than the QBs. He’s better than Chubb.
This is exactly the two optimal uses of their picks, the best quarterback and keep multiplying the two-for-one first rounders bonanza.
It’s so clearly what Cleveland should do … and what Sashi Brown would have done … that it seems like a dead cert Dorsey will not do it.
Hey, if they somehow, someway convince Kirk Cousins to sign…
I personally cannot wait until Cousins signs somewhere so we can stop hearing about this ridiculous Cousins “sweepstakes,” where teams are supposed to falling all over themselves at the idea of signing this middling talent.
Middiling or worse made up 3/4 of the final four thisyear
So why would you pay for it?
They can offer Kirk Cousins 30 million a year and tell him we can draft a back in Barkley and perhaps Nelson plus here a list of free agency anybody you want us to sign do you like Sammy Watkins? Or somebody else on this list we have a boatload of cap space
They can offer Kirk Cousins 30 million a year and tell him we can draft a back in Barkley and perhaps Nelson plus here a list of free agency anybody you want us to sign do you like Sammy Watkins? Or somebody else on this list we have a boatload of cap space Cleveland
Cousins is a possibility for sure. I see three realistic possibilities for the Browns at QB:
1) They fall in love with Rosen or Darnold. If this happens you just take your guy at one. It’s Rosen for me unless he bombs his interviews.
2) They fall in love with Mayfield or Jackson. Then they can possibly take best player at one and trade down a couple spots from four. Or trade down from one and pick your QB at four. Don’t trade down too far, because you don’t want to be screwed at QB for another year. I love Jackson if he goes to the right system. In this scenario you sign a veteran to compete with your rookie.
3) They don’t love any of the QBs. In this case you sign the best FA QB you can, hopefully Cousins. You draft someone like Falk in the mid rounds.
I think the best case scenario is that you love one of the rookies. Cousins is a good QB. But if you can get a rookie contract QB who is likely to be good and has a chance to be great, then do it. I’d take Rosen.
Pretty concise breakdown. Haven’t the browns front office said they don’t like rosens attittude? I kind of feel for any team that thinks they are a Kirk cousins away from winning. I hate this sports adage but cousins doesn’t “just win.”. what he does is get paid to give a team a qb who is not a laughing stock.
hopefully the browns take a nice deep breath and consider Mayfield/jackson . That division is so ripe for them to make a big move right now if they don’t botch it with allen. Cincy is stalking and maybe regressing, Baltimore seems rudderless (a bit), and the Steelers are in some serious cap hell meets an old qb who may or may not even want to play. They’ve got. A ton of cash and amazing draft stock right now.
Yeah, I guess Rosen has supposedly got an entitled attitude. I’ve heard different takes on it. The Browns have been rumored to not like him. He’d be my first choice based on his success on the field. I’d like to see the Browns competitive just for the sake of those fans, and I don’t think it will work out if they pick Allen, especially at first over.
A lot of teams thought Are on Rodgers was a hothead, and he got passed over in the draft the year he came out. Rodgers went #24 to the Packers. Interestingly enough, Matt Jones, former QB turned WR turned cokehead went #21 to the Jaguars. Coach Holmgren had the foresight to draft Chris Spencer two picks after Rodgers. Maybe we should have traded up that year.
Rob, glad ya got around to watching Rasheem Green. What was your impression of him (other than the snippet you mentioned in your piece)?
Loved his mobility, use of his physical tools and he’s the only person I’ve seen beat Billy Price inside. Carries his weight really well. Just looks like he could develop into one of those game wrecker types, working inside and out. I think he needs to mature a little, seems a bit shy and retiring. Would like to see a bit more dog. But as a physical talent he is very, very intriguing.
I’m a big believer in Green. One of the players I wished wasn’t gaining the hype that he is, but not surprised. Like the idea of him as an end that can work inside.
It’s going to be fun to see where Vea goes. He’s certainly a unique talent but I have seen some mocks where he does last in to the late teens.
If that’s the case SEA better run to the podium!
Vita making to #15 is a PIPE DREAM!
It may be a pipe dream, but what would the Seahawks do if he is available? I would pick him. He is worth at least 10 million a year minus his rookie contract for five years. Minus his 12 million dollar rookie contract that gives him a 38 million dollar value.
I think there’s a good chance we deal ET to Dallas for their number 19 pick and plus a third or fourth round pick. (Dallas just picked up a couple of fourth round compensatory picks). Kris Richard is in Dallas now and their defensive backfield needs a cornerback, not the strength of this draft. There is talk of moving starting free safety Byron Jones to cornerback to fill that need. That means Dallas needs a free safety and ET could put Dallas in the Super Bowl. There is a decent chance Dez Bryant will be kicked to the curb which would open up a salary slot for ET. Finally, Thomas is the kind of splash Jerry Jones loves. I see this happening and Dallas taking a receiver with their second round pick. I suspect we would use one of the first round picks and trade the other for a second and third.
Wishful thinking, but I would be totally down. Maybe send ET and RS for a 1st and 4th.
For a 1st I would say I’m in. I agree, use one pick and trade back the other.
Ed, Dallas has salary cap limitations just like every other team. We can’t just hand them two massive contracts.
Yup. I think the only way it works is if ET takes Dez Bryant’s contract slot. I’d try to sign Sherman to a reasonable 3 year extension. With Earl’s salary gone we could front load Sherman’s deal but I think Sherm will be an elite corner for three more years. If ET is gone I want Sherman to steady the defensive backfield.
I love the tier system of ranking the big board. This is the best big board evaluation I’ve seen anywhere.
+1
Jags are extending Blake Bortles…no that’s not a typo…
(In my best yoda voice): “Jags, that is why you fail”
3years/$54m/$26m guaranteed isn’t bad in this market when they were paying him $19m next year anyway.
He showed quite a bit of improvement this year. Beat the Hawks when they bet he wouldn’t, and had a great playoffs including a shootout in Pittsburgh.
Bortles for 3/54M or Cousins for 5 / 130M…… ok I’ll go with Bortles
Its a tough question but if you just need that game manager then maybe Bortles is your guy for half the price.
He played great against the Hawks – damn!
have to disagree on the great playoffs.
he was ok, but they lost the game against NE when they had 55 seconds left in the first half and they knelt down and walked into the tunnel. That is giving up, and that means the coach does not believe in him. Wonder how many guys on the team were steaming about that later?
Or… the Hawks played like a team going from west to east and looked like dog meat.
Is the AFC Championship game failing now? He’s not great, but probably their best option at this point. Otherwise you really do risk having nobody, when you’ve already got the team Denver is purported to be (although they could use some WR help, for sure).
Their best option with how that team is constructed is Lamar jackson. Bortles is a sub mediocre an who is not ascending in any way, shape, or form. That defense with that running game and Lamar Jackson is that scrappy division could also some damage for a few years.
They can still try to draft Jackson. Bortles may be their starting QB for this year but we all know he has a very limited ceiling so if the Jags love Jackson, then they could draft Jackson and let him sit for a year then cut Bortles loose next year and start Jackson then.
This is what I was thinking. Obviously Bortles isn’t the best possible QB they could have this year or for the future, but from their perspective I think this is the best option. Think they were on the hook for his $19 million salary, so spending another $27 million+ on a guy like Cousins probably not a great idea.
But they can still add a developmental guy, and this is just like if they signed a decent bridge QB for a couple of years. Not left starting over like most teams who lack a QB, and not a lot of $$ committed to the position.
Agree. Bortles’ deal is essentially a tryout contract. He was getting $19m next year anyway. This deal acknowledges the strides he’s made and the season he had, but also gives the Jags easy breathing room to move on if he regresses. Only $26m guaranteed with performance incentives. He needs to maintain performance, and continue to improve in order to get the full value of this deal and have a shot at another extension.
They could easily draft a QB this season and have him ready to go if Bortles goes back to his old form without too much financial damage. Very clever for both sides.
This seems like a poignant event on the site’s ongoing RB debate since Jacksonville had one and only one opportunity — on draft day, ten months ago — to trade Fournette for one of the top rookie QBs. Having a top-10 pick, knowing that QB was at best a major question mark. Now they’re extending a poor QB because they botched positional value.
Don’t even have to assume they later would have hit on Kamara or Hunt although that’s the Yahtzee scenario. But what a monster they’d be if they had Watson or Mahomes, plus the contract flexibility, with a committee backfield of Yeldon, Grant, and some rando like Perine or Joe Williams and/or an eye to draft an exciting RB on day two in this deep class.
If Bortles keeps being the guy we’ve seen and they end up squandering the roster they’ve put together while always finishing too high to go get that QB, picking Fournette could look like their very own Percy Harvin trade by 2020 or so.
I’m not sure Jacksonville is regretting that decision. They were a strong case to be the top team in the AFC and that was mostly due to their winning combination of defense + tough running. The same formula that worked for Seattle back in the day. They have a culture there that we once had, the acquisition of Fournette has done as much as anything to create that.
Trading Earl for a 1st would then put us at a huge need for a FS in our defensive scheme. I’d rather pay him market rate for 3 years.
Not necessarily. After all, they nearly didn’t have Earl in 2010.
They can also run a different scheme, they are going to move on from it at some point anyways. Even if you resign Earl you wont have him forever.
Its just such a polarizing topic…to trade Ear or not to Trade. I keep going back and forth and guess Ill be behind either decision they make as there is pros and cons either way.
I have decided to let John and Pete make the decision, we can’t do everything!
Very big of you, man… lol
They didn’t have him in 2010. Then they drafted earl in the first round the first year they could because they needed a good FS that could shut down the deep middle for their scheme. Pete isn’t changing his scheme, Idk why we would when the defense wasn’t the problem. Why are you in such a rush to get rid of talented players to acquire draft picks and money for worse players. Earl is the best in the world at what he does, pay the man.
It’s like the Trade Wilson crowd. Bad teams have been able to convince their fans that being bad is in fact good, that hope is just around the corner, that ‘real’ fans understand this, and that only shmucks actually want to see their team win games.
Agreed. Let’s also trade Pete Carrol, Bobby Wagner, Doug Baldwin with earl and Russ. Think of the cap savings and draft picks! We will be unstoppable! Just like the Cleveland Brown!
Nice. LOL
It’ll happen eventually. The only question is, are we going to wait until these players have no value to move on, or are we going to move on while we can get value in return, similar to the New England model?
Misread that…
Didn’t see the word “nearly”. In that case (if we missed out on earl) we probably wouldn’t have won or maybe even gone to any Super Bowls and we wouldn’t have had the #1 defense in the league for 4 years in a row and a top 10 defense since 2010. He has been that important to the hawks success.
Idk man I want to root for a team that wins games. We will win more games with earl than without him next year (and the year after too). That 13 million isn’t getting put any place better or more impactful than what earl does for us. I’m just glad some of you guys don’t run the team and they actually know how valuable earl is to our success. Pete’s mantra is “win forever” not “trade our best players so we might get better some time in the future” we don’t get better next year (or the year after) by getting rid of earl unless he gets hurt.
Seems like you guys are butt hurt over the fact he said “come and get me if you get the chance” to Jason Garrett. Who cares, you really think earl won’t give it 110% every time he hits the field? Who doesn’t want to play for the team they grew up rooting for? Especially understandable when when you look at how the fans and the organization treat some of these guys. maybe people are scared because of what happened to Kam? Kam deserved that money too, unfortunately it’s football and sometimes guys get hurt.
Are you new to the blog? Because there is no ‘butt hurt’ here. In fact I wrote this article about the meeting with Jason Garrett https://seahawksdraftblog.com/thoughts-on-the-earl-thomas-thing
It’s clear you’re very passionate about keeping Earl, Eburgs. And that’s fine. Nobody here is eager to push him out the door. It’s merely an acknowledgement that it’s a possibility he leaves (and it is). If he does move on, the Seahawks carry on with different personnel. That’s football.
Thanks for the reply. I’ve read every article you have wrote on the blog for 3+ years and most of the comments, I’ve rarely posted comments myself so I guess you could say I’m new. I can usually happily read and scroll but I guess the trade Earl narrative has really struck a nerve because I think it’s a bad move unless we get a ton back for him. I keep seeing comments where people suggest trading him for peanuts and it blows my mind. Really appreciate your work and and your perspective. I read the Christmas article and I agree with you completely on the matter. Sorry, the butthurt comment wasn’t directed at you. I think you have a very logical outlook on the situation. I’m just trying to understand why some people are coming for him the way they are.
Ima keep banging the drum for earl if people keep talking about trading him for less than a first. It’s not about being sentimental, it’s about me wanting the hawks to be good.
I’m not butthurt. I love earl. Loved him since he was drafted. The karate chop goal line stops are things of beauty.
But I’m not interested in paying earl the highest salary for a free safety based on Eric berrys numbers after next season nor am I interested in a significant extension for a player that now has back to back seasons of missing games, at his age.
How does giving earl a boatload of cash ,which he deserves no doubt, and having him miss 4 games a year (current pace) for the life of his contract help Seattle out? What’s the safety net year to year for injuries when he’s out? I just wonder if earl is destined now to have an ed reed style career here in out. Good seasons punctuated by season ending injuries. Because injuries for everyone become a force multiplier at some point. And you can’t keep sustaining injuries and coming back w/o reinjuring yourself again and again.
Agree.
I think some are confusing ‘sentimental forever’ with ‘win forever.’
Funniest line on the blog in forever! “Sentimental forever,”.
Unless Earl gets hurt we are better with him. Idk how keeping the best free safety in the world is being sentimental. If he sucked I’d say cut his ass with J lane.
4 games a year? What a random assumption to make. He has broken his leg in a crazy accident once and missed 3 games because of a pulled hammie. He has been a very durable player. It’s football, everyone gets hurt or could get hurt at some point. He isn’t an old man. If his hammy isn’t a long term issue and he wants to keep playing there isn’t a better place to put our money (maybe Russ or Bobby haha)
If the Eagles traded up for Earl as everyone expected instead of Graham in 2010 they wouldn’t have ever had Earl. So they would’ve had a defense minus him and would’ve had to operate regardless. They aren’t tied to Earl forever or it’ll be impossible to function with carroll’s scheme. And I’m not in a rush to do anything, just discussing the possibilities.
My feeling is that there is some sort of disconnect with Earl and the Hawks or certain players. The thing that bothers me most about him is either you are all in or not. Hawk Mantra. Maybe Earl himself wants to move on. That’s a real consideration. IMO
I’d let ET play out his contract this year. If he has a great year..you can either franchise him for ’19 or let him go FA and take the high comp pick. If he shows decline (or continues to miss games due to injury)..you just saved yourself another 3rd contract mistake (see Kam).
That would be ideal. Too bad Earl doesn’t want to play nice. He will be pissed if you make him but it could be worth it.
What a sad alternative reality that would have been.
I’m still super annoyed that we traded down and took Bruce when Fletcher Cox was still there. Can you imagine??? Great draft, obviously… but that seemed like a no-brainer after Luke Keuchley was taken.
Any defense that gets into shootouts with rookie qbs, gives up as much as they did to the rams at home and leads the league in allowing teams to convert on third and long is actually a problem.
Shootouts with rookie QBs? You mean Deshaun Watson who was setting the entire league on fire. Watson got his but he got got too, earl took a pick to the house and we won the game (I was there, what a great game. Our team was decimated by injuries in that rams game and it looked like they gave up for the first time I can remember (K.J., Bobby, Naz out along with sherm kam an Avril). Our LB depth is trash is all that game showed me. That was after we narrowly lost to the jags and our teams kicked each other’s asses.
The third down problem is legit and needs to be addressed. I don’t think moving on from earl will address that issue. Hopefully it gets remedied with the infusion of new coaches, more pass rush always helps too.
I would say we’ve been a bit spoiled with the otherworldly consistency we’ve experienced here for the past six years. Good, even great defenses get roasted in the NFL. We fell off a bit last year. In part to injuries, possibly in part to coaching, possibly in part to a drop in intensity? Either way it’s not realistic to have the week to week level of excellence we’ve had. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t expect a great defense. But as I said, even great defenses get put through the wringer some weeks.
Jags got smoked by the 49ers, really hard to be the Seahawks. I think our trouble on third down was a Richardd thing, he’d call plays that left so much open space. I think PC did him a favor letting him go learn elsewhere, experience is a teacher and i bet Richard will be a great DC and eventual head coach.
I get that it really do. But here’s the thing about the defense to getting roasted. When you’ve allocated a ton of money to the defense and your offense is average and then you are the 11th,12th ranked defense in the league.
Which is fine When you have an offense that is not his one player.
There are teams that have done big things with a sub too ten defense. However the easiest path to the big dance is a top five defense. Not easiest but most assured.
Agreed that the standards raise when you are paying that much to one side of the ball. Some roster balance is needed.
Is the consensus that the first 3 picks of the draft are likely going to be QB picks?
Darnold, Rosen, and Allen…..
I think one way or another Saquon Barkley will go in the top three.
Just never know, Im guessing there will only be 2 QB’s at most in the top 3 unless Indy trades out. You would think Indy goes Barkley or Chubb if they stay.
Unless they pick a QB due to fears about Luck…
I think that it’s insane if Allen goes in the top 10. That dude needs so much work. I’d rather have Jackson or Mayfield for sure. I think Chubb or Nelson could easily go top 3.
Agree with you. I would guess that Mayfield, Rosen, and DArnold all go in the top six. Chubb, Nelson and Barkley probably fill the other three spots. Just not sure of the order due to trades.
I’m not convinced Mayfield goes that early. I think Allen will, though.
I don’t think Mayfield will go early either, but I still think that barring injury he will be the best QB out of this class. Which is why I am fundamentally opposed to the Browns picking him.
In fact, until theBrowns demonstrate better coaching, they shouldn’t be allowed any more rookie QBs. Except for Johnny Manziel who wants another shot.
No way seattle picks at 18 imo. They need to move down and manufacture some picks or make some trades. I see them trading down and taking a running back in the second round. Any Sony Mechel fans in the second round?
+1 for Michel in the 2nd. Big fan. Only thing concerning are the 12 fumbles through his career at Georgia but I’m sure that can be fixed.
It’s hard to say which RB’s will be available in the 2nd but you’d have to think SEA trades down (like always) & comes away with more picks.
I’d be happy with one of Jones, Freeman, Michel, Chubb or K. Johnson.
The RBs I’d like to see us get one of, in order (pending combine): Jones, Chubb, Michel, Guice, Kelly.
Jones and Guice. After that it’s a totaa crap shoot depending on team’s preference.
total
I agreed about jones. And I’m not as high or as low on guide as others but he’s a crapshoot to me. Injury history, plays a bit like rawls. could be electric, could be a player that runs into the backs of his blockers.
“Guice,”
I’m a little intrigued by kelly. Schottenheimer has shown a desire to have a smaller back in his roster before. I’m curious how Seattle views him. He’s got some good tape but it’s clear when he lays into his shoulder he’s a small player.
I’m recently truly fascinated by jaylen samuels. He’s obviously not a team at the next level and I’m not really sure what he is going forward. Plus Seattle doesn’t have the luxury of picks for guys like Samuels or kelly so I wonder how they approach the running back position.
Not a tight end. I mean to say.
His games against Florida and Georgia Tech are just so impressive, he ran all over those defenses, they had no answer for him. And Georgia too – they bottled him up a fair bit because they were just much better than that Tennessee offense, but he showed the same impressive traits: quickness, footwork, balance, toughness. I think he can be a minor star at the next level. He’s a pretty good skateboarder, which explains to some extent his fantastic feet.
I think for sure he’s intriguing. Will be interesting if Seattle changes shape in running back profiles
It will be interesting to see if their profiles change with the coaching changes. Of course if Nick Chubb’s knee is stable they might not need to go away from their profile. He could legitimately be the best back in the class.
I am very interested in how they will evaluate the oline and rbs because the TEF that they appear to use for linemen and evaluation of the running backs seems flawed. At the same time as a gambler, when you lose a couple hands in a row it usually means you are due for a win. Very interested to see if they still hold the ultra athletic linemen in high regard or if they will look for a more performance based evaluation instead of potential. I would love to see the line look like this: Brown/Fant//Britt/Ifedi/Pocic with a committee of young rookie running backs looking to earn snaps. Not old, injuried, or unproven veteran backs.
Great article Rob. Really great to come here. Usually a fan of field gulls but the articles have been dreadful of late imo. Very negative to my mind. I understand that it’s the off-season but I feel as if they have been relatively drastic in nature.
Thanks for reading!
Maybe the Browns could pull a fast one, trade down one spot and get a few choice picks from the Giants…. the Giants select QB they like, which is probably not who the Browns like… then the Browns could scoop up QB at #2 and RB at #4…. leaving INDY most likely grabbing the DE Chubb.
I still can’t wrap my head around spending over 120M for Kirk “You like that” Cousins.
Talk about a massive over pay…. if he were Aaron Rodgers, then I could see it….. but Cousins….
If the Browns got Cousins (for example) then they could be freed up to pick the best DE and RB (or OL) available. It would be better draft capital utilization in my opinion, especially since I’m not buying into any of the QBs right now.
Pretty much guarantees your team will have a shot at the playoffs but never go any further. Just like Cutler and Rivers.
Just took a look at the list of QBs that are in the NFL draft……. talk about scary after the first few guys….. and they are not “can’t miss prospects”.
A guys name that came up, while reviewing some prospects, due to a nice showing at the East/West Shrine game was Nic Shimonek, QB, Texas Tech. I’m keeping my eye on him as a later round QB Seattle might be interested in…. since I’m not fully convinced they have a developmental guy on the roster currently. Boykin has not made a significant advancement from year 1 to 2 and I’m not sure if they will try to retain their back-up from last season (Davis).
Agreed Charlie. Glad we aren’t in line for the QB sweepstakes this year. There is no one there that’s a lock. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if they were all a bust. Most of them are raw and teams are banking that upside potential will bear fruit in the future. Scary as hell.
Over time before the combine and draft, the player rankings fluctuate greatly. I understand that, but I also find it curious about players rated highly early on who are not central to the current conversation. It is not surprising to see players rise in the rankings as game tapes reveal strong performances, but to see players drop with little to explain it makes me wonder.
For example, it was not long ago that players like Harold Landry and Arden Key were seen as first rounders, not so much now. But, there are other less dramatic examples, like Rashaan Evans, Taven Bryan, and Kerryon Johnson.
I am not banging a drum, I am just curious.
There has been discussion about Key and Landry, so that just seems like process and caution, but just when I was getting excited about Kerryon, he does not seem to be part of the plan. For a time, Taven Bryan was looking like a great Seahawk fit. No more?
I know that this will not be the last of the confusion for the terminably confused like me, but if anyone can provide some light, I will be obliged, even if it is just to join me in the confusion.
I think the narratives that get set early are not always accurate and take some time to shake. Draft analysts are still doing their film study on guys and realizing their conceptions of players weren’t all accurate. Especially those folks with full time jobs and families, like Rob. As he says in the article he just had the opportunity to dive deep into Green.
The combine will change the narrative again. Sometimes guys can fall off the radar a bit just because they aren’t overly exciting and other players are surfacing. That might be happening with Kerryon Johnson. Not my favorite back (6th or 7th for me) but may be a value if he really slides. He’s not a particularly exciting player, but has shown he can be effective.
Probably right Pat, and I agree. At the same time, it can be easy to fall in love with the new beauty, and forget the early love has a lot to offer. The process will work itself out, and in a couple of years we will look back and say: “How did we miss on this guy”? And that includes the faves that will fail. I’ve played this game long enough that surprises will happen.
And isn’t that great?
Old you make some great points/questions that arise every year. I agree with Rob and Patrick about Johnson per example. His impact was incredible and he was a great workhorse….However he had kind of a low yards per carry (btw not an end all be all). But more importantly for me, Rob has presented a compelling argument for Ronald jones that I frankly never paid much attention to during the season.
I think the national media tries way to hard to make usc relevant….
This is also just one posters take but I tend to focus away from, not uninteresting or talented players, but rather especially in this draft season players I can’t see Seattle taking. Regardless of regime changes Seattle has spent a ton of capital on oline players early and I’m not sure they won’t do the same again.
Seattle has spent a decent amount of draft stock in offensive weapons with picks to Paul Richardson , chrisrine michael, golden tate, as well as trades for Percy harvin, and graham….so I think it’s very possible that they spend their very limited stock on a “weapon,” like jones.
the third round is the earliest (not counting earl but he was extremely special) that they drafted any kind of db. So I look for later players that may fit physical type and stay away from the derwin James’s of the world. He’s not earl. He’s not even kam. He’s not bad but he’s not a “centerfielding,” free safety that provides massive coverage . I love Lbers as much or more than Rob Staton but Seattle doesn’t love them like I do so I don’t pay a ton of attention. Bobby Wagner in the second than a bunch of fourth round picks and later.
Sorry that’s long. That’s just one posters outlook. there are a ton of players that I think are good or even great and that I think would be awesome for Seattle but I don’t do too much thinking about since I’m more confident Seattle won’t even consider them.
It is definitely easy to fall in love with the shiny new toy. It can be a challenge (especially for those of us who can’t devote a lot of time to this and don’t have a structured grading system) to keep a level head through the long draft season.
I don’t even like Johnson that much relative to some others, but I think he’s the type of player who can fall out of our awareness a bit. He’s solid, but doesn’t necessarily have any attributes that jump out at you when you watch him.
Personally, I was never big fan of Landry or Key. At least not compared to the national hype. Key had a mess of a 2017 from start to finish. Talented yes — but with too much accompanying baggage. Landry is a poor man’s Vic Beasley.
My first piece on Taven Bryan came on October 2nd so it’s not that dramatic a rise: https://seahawksdraftblog.com/monday-notes-meet-floridas-rising-star-taven-bryan
That’s quite early in the college football season. Rashaan has been on the radar since last year and got his chance in 2017 as a full time feature. Kerryon was a late riser but his impact for Auburn was incredible.
If Lamar Jackson is available at #18 would you roll the dice? At best he’s the best QB in the draft and is worth a couple of first round picks. At worst he’s a fabulous athlete that could take the Percy Harvin wildcard role. Or… if you really want to dream he beats out Russell and you get a cheap QB and a big return on Wilson. Fun idea but it would take titanium balls to make that call.
Though I think Jackson if given the opportunity may end up better than the other qbs in this draft….Not saying much since I don’t like any of them……
And I think Jackson = Vick is not a great comp because jackson is leaps and bounds better than Vick was in college…..
Even in a fair competition I have no doubt Wilson destroys jackson. First Wilson was at the combine a tremendous athlete and still is. Second Lamar Jackson has really improved as a passer but in college Wilson was a deadly accurate an for wisconsin.
the thing about Jackson as a weapon is that’s actually a pretty big learning curve, catching passes, etc.
I think a smart team or a team that wants to be smarter namely the browns selects nelson/barkeley and then gives Seattle a good little haul and takes Jackson at 18 and starts to win some games next year.
The names might not be quite right, but I think the Browns might double dip the QB market this year.
Perhaps they emulate what Washington did with the RG3 draft…. by drafting Cousins as well. It was widely panned at the time, but in the long run Washington found a decent QB…..
I’m not sure they would want to take 2 guys in the first round, but from 2nd round on.. all bets are off.
Let’s say for example, Josh Allen in the first, then turn around and draft Luke Falk in the 2nd. Bring in a veteran QB for a bridge… until 1 of the 2 are ready to rumble.
I’d love to see the Browns pull that off. Not that I’m a Browns fan but that would be brilliant. Nelson/Barkley/Jackson from the same draft… wow! Unless they really screw it up I don’t think we’ll be laughing at the Browns much longer after this draft.
I would have… until they decided to go the Hugh route versus the Sashi route. I don’t think the Browns’ coaching staff would know how to use Jackson well. They can have the most incredible talent (and they are in the midst already of amassing it) but without coaching that can take advantage of that talent, I think they will continue to be a mess. And as a note, this is coming from someone who thought Hugh would be a great fit for Cleveland in the first place, has not worked out at all.
I’m a huge RW fan..but I think the Hawks should definitely be thinking of moving on from him at the end of his current contract (as opposed to giving him a mega-rich 3rd contract). Looking at the four teams that made the Conference championships this year..only one had a qb that could be considered a “franchise qb” (and he’s possibly GOAT). The other three had journeyman types at qb but had fantastic defenses.
I certainly wouldn’t tie up $30 million a year in RW.
I completely disagree with this.
First 30 million for Wilson when the salary cap goes up will be nothing.
Second. Let’s talk conference championship games. Blake bortles sucked, Minnesota’s feel good run with keenum came tumbling down and once again as you mentioned the goat was in the big dance.
Since 1995 (maybe 1994 depending how you view aikman) it can be argued that only 5 championships were won by less than franchise players. The ravens twice with dilfer and flacco, Nick foles, a pointless Peyton manning, and even a young tom Brady once.
Other than that the players who won the Superbowl and the teams that get back to the big dance have had franchise qbs.
I guess my problem with this move on from Wilson talk is that when he becomes the highest paid qb that is only true until the next contract after him is signed. Meanwhile teams are killing themselves paying for an oft injured rodgers, Stafford who has done nothing, cousins who has done nothing, garropolo and osweiler both who have yet to do anything, and Seattle is going to 86 the best qb they have ever had (sorry kreig, it’s true) a guy who has two times in three seasons been in the conversation for mvp, set rookie records, and regular season records, who literally carried one of the crappiest offenses ever assembled on his back…..and instead of extending him into his early thirties while players like brees, brady, mannng , etc. Are playing into their late thirties….Seattle is just going to jump on into the Patrick mahomes, trubisky, bridgewater, ponder, weeden, rg3, locker, Winston sweepstakes and hope they find a golden ticket.
Sorry for being jerky but it’s like “Seahawks twitter,” literally doesn’t know how football works or what football is and literally had never seen any team with a 30 plus qb not only get to the Superbowl but win a superbowl.
Yeah, I gotta disagree with you here as well. I’d say franchise QBs are gold but you be greatly underestimating their value and rarity. Russell will be paid the going rate and the salary cap will rise to compensate. That said, a team with a franchise QB still on a rookie deal has a huge advantage. That cap advantage certainly contributed to our success over the last five years. I think they’ll the players will tweek rookie salary concept to account for major contributions to team success. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the next CBA separate the QB from the overall cap.
Mike, I disagree with this as well. Yes, there have been teams that have gotten far into the playoffs with a journeyman QB. But the teams who are in perennially in the playoffs have a franchise QB – Greenbay, Pittsburg, New England, Atlanta, Carolina, Seattle.
The teams that make the playoffs with journeymen are flukes. The reason teams roll the dice on the QB draft sweepstakes every year is they’re hoping to find that franchise quarterback who can get them into the playoffs every year, the next Aaron Rogers.
Just harken back to the Seahawks of the 90s and all the first round draft capital spent trying to find our quarterback. When you finally find one, you don’t walk away from him because he’s about to get paid again.
What about the fact that no QB playing under his “maxed out” deal has won the Super Bowl? Brady takes less. If you dedicate that much money to that position, oh take away from every other group on the roster. Now, do I want to replace Russell? No, I do not. Still, you need to find a young guy to develop and at least that gives you some options in the future. We seem to be the only franchise not willing to find a young guy to develop and actually spend a pick on that.
Is that true though? Wouldn’t manning for the Colts have been one of the highest paid and and thus at one point per early cap been maxed out? Wouldn’t roethisburgers second ring been on a max qb contract? wouldn’t eli been on a second contract and thus a maxed contract at the time they won their rings?
I literally don’t know. Did all three of them plus drew brees when he won, we’re they not all on contracts that made them the highest paid players at their positions?
The exact stat has to do with % of the overall cap dedicated to the QB. To my knowledge, Ben has never been a top salary guy, has he?
Drewdawg,
That’s fair as percent of cap space. It’s probably accurate and there’s obvious advantages to paying a little less for the qb.I
One thing I wish people would look at for the Superbowl run is how well balanced all the contracts were compared to now. Minus okung and even so, no one had that egregious of a contract. Maybe that’s the key for building. A team have everyone squarely on a first contract.
The other consideration is that the Eagles had enough money to pay a rookie QB as starter and have an experienced backup QB.
Does anyone even know who the Seahawks backup QB is? I lost track a couple years ago.
Depending on what the Steelers want for him, not heaps I imagine, I’d be pretty keen for the Hawks to have a serious look at Martavis Bryant. He can cause mayhem on his day, and I think the Hawks need to add pace on offense in a big way.
I’m super interested in Seattle pursuing Bryant for a pick. Seattle could use a player like that if they still want to take the deep shot.
Bryant wants the ball…. alot… which is why he has been pouting with the Steelers.
He was disgruntled because Brown was getting so many balls thrown his way…..
Aside from that, I’m not convinced he can work within the confines of a run first offense.
No thanks on him.
To be fair, Brown should be getting all those targets. He’s the best wide out in the game.
Agreed. Bryant can pout all he wants but he’s not brown. That said if prich leaves Seattle will need to address the wr position somehow. And their draft acumen at that position is pretty spotty.
‘That said if prich leaves Seattle will need to address the wr position somehow. And their draft acumen at that position is pretty spotty.’
This is completely fair. Should that happen, it’ll be interesting to see if they go after another P-Rich or a bigger bodied guy. I’m all for someone like Boise St’s Cedrick Wilson.
Think he’ll be too early though? I’m still pretty I referred in your guy chark. I’ve got a few others but I’m not holding my breath that any of the players I like will contribute.
Vol, I agree with the Seahawks taking a strong look at WR-Cedrick Wilson. The current rankings seem to have him as a Rd-4 or Rd-5 pick. Of all the WR’s in that range, I think they’ll like Wilson a lot. His 2017 stat line of 83/1511/7-TD’s, 18.20-ypc, 58 for 1-st downs, 39/15+, 22/25+ should have him as a day-2 pick, so IMO he’s very undervalued.
Another WR I think may be of interest to the Seahawks in Rd-5 or so is WR-Tre’Quan Smith, 6-015/205 from UCF, with a very nice stat line in 2017: 59/1171, 19.85-avg, 13-TD’s, 79-long, 43/1-st downs, 30/15+, 17/25+ This WR has good ball skills, strider speed and is likely the best blocking WR in the draft (as in Kearse 2.0).
Sorry, I forgot a couple of important bits of information from my Cedrick Wilson file:
#2 in FBS with 1511-yds season total. #5 in FBS with 58 receptions for 1-st downs, #1 in FBS with 39 receptions of 15+ yds. & #1 in FBS with 22 receptions of 25+ yds.
Reference: http://www.cfbstats.com/2017/leader/national/player/situational01/category03/sort01.html
Their Draft acumen at WR has been spotty? ok let’s examine that.
2010-Golden Tate 2nd round
2013-Chris Harper 4th round
2014-Paul Richardson 2nd Round
2014-Kevin Norwood 4th Round
2015-Tyler Lockett 3rd Round
2016-Kenny Lawler 7th round
2017-Amara Darboh-3rd Round
2017-David Moore 7th Round
https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2015/2/20/8072877/what-the-statistics-tell-us-about-the-draft-by-round
That said, the numbers are really that great and the bust factor in the first round is tied for the worst overall.
Of 317 selected, only 74 have become starters for at least half their careers.
The first round success rate is 58% and the second round is almost as good at 49%.
The third round has the second highest number of receivers drafted with 52 but only a 25% success rate.
If you are ranking the rounds by numbers drafted, you would go 7th, 3rd, 4th, 6th, 2nd, 1st and 5th.
The fifth round actually has a higher success rate (16%) than the fourth round (12%). The sixth is at 9% and the seventh is 5%.
On average, four WRs are taken in the first round and then you see an average of five per round for the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 6th rounds.
So no receivers selected in the 1st Round. 2 in the 2nd Round of those two both Richardson, and Tate are starters. So 100% success rate thus far. 2 in the 3rd Round. Tyler Lockett is a hit, it’s too early too tell one way or the other on Amara Darboh. So let’s say 50% success rate. 4th Round you got Kevin Norwood, and Chris Harper ok 0% but league average is 12%. I think you’re holding John Schneider to a ridiculous standard. He is way way above league average. What do you want Hawkradomas?
oops I left out Kris Durham 2011- 4th round. so 4th round still at 0%. But overall my point still stands. John Schneider’s acumen at drafting WR is just fine thank you.
Listen I love data. Love it. And the guys at arrowhead pride always have great info. But when you look at the Seahawks picks its the following:
Tate an above average receiver who Seattle didn’t retain.
Prich an injury concerned wr who unfortunately had plenty of injuries in the pros and a good season.
Tyler lockett a good get in the third.
It’s not a sky is falling list. It s not bad based on percentages. What is bad is the lack of development. Norwwod, durham, lawler, any of the futures contracts players. And when you add in the draft stock to get a so so season out of Percy harvin.
Some teams are better at developing different positions. I don’t expect js to magically get every pick right. I just don’t have a ton of confidence when they pick late round wr’s that they are going to amount to anything. Like I do when they pick late dbs.
The point I think is-this you shouldn’t be expecting any late round picks to amount to anything, if they do you’re increidbly lucky. I think your thoughts on late round DBs is inaccurate, and mostly formed by old data.
2010-
Earl Thomas -1st
Walter Thurmond -4th
Kam Chancellor- 5th
2011-
Richard Sherman-5th
Mark LeGree-5th
Byron Maxwell-6th
2012-
Jeremy Lane-6th
Winston Guy-6th
2013-
Tharold Simon-5th
2014
Eric Pinkins-6th
2015-
Tye Smith-5th
Ryan Murphy-7th
2016-
N/A
2017-
Quill Griffin-3rd
Delano Hill-3rd
Tedric Thompson-4th
Mike Tyson-6th
It not bad data. I’ve posted about a month ago how Seattle has literally not received a drop of production from a draft pick from the fifth round or later beyond going on five seasons ago.
(I did not include udfas as that that’s irrelevant from draft stock).
The narrative that Seattle is great with the late round picks comes from an era of several hundred roster moves in a two year span.
It’s why I hate, hate, hate, that they gave up a second for richardson. I thought at the time it was total arrogance to think that the “value” this year in the second was so low that it’s good to blow a draft pick and now roll into draft season with 7 or 8 picks frm the fifth round to the 7th. Terrible planning from the front office.
But the fact does still remain that they were at one time able to find pro bowl talent on defense late and they have never done that with the offense (with picks)
Peter-
“The narrative that Seattle is great with the late round picks comes from an era of several hundred roster moves in a two year span.”
If that’s the narrative it’s wrong. You are building yourself a false narrative based on the 2010-2011 drafts. Outside of 2010 and 2011 Late round picks as defined as rounds 4-7 on Offense and Defense:
2012-
Offense
Robert Turbin-4th
JR Sweezy-7th
Defense
Jaye Howard-4th (cut)
Jeremy Lane-6th
Winston Guy-6th (cut)
2013-
Offense
Chris Harper-4th
Luke Willson-5th
Spencer Ware-6th (cut)
Ryan Seymour-7th
Michael Bowie-7th
Jared Smith-7th
Defense
Jesse Williams-5th
Tharold Simon-5th
Ty Powell-7th
2014-
Offense
Kevin Norwood-4th
Garrett Scott-6th
Kiero Small-7th
Defense
Cassius Marsh-4th
Kevin Pierre Lewis-4th
Jimmy Staten-5th
Eric Pinkins-6th
2015-
Offense
Terry Poole-4th
Mark Glowinski-4th
Kristjan Sokoli-6th
Defense
Tye Smith-5th
Obum Gwacham-6th
Ryan Murphy-7th
2016-
Offense
Alex Collins-5th (cut)
Joey Hunt-6th
Kenny Lawler-7th
Zac Brooks-7th
Defense
Quinton Jefferson-5th
2017-
Offense
Justin Senior-6th
David Moore-7th
Chris Carson-7th
Defense
Tedric Thompson-4th
Mike Tyson-6th
The Facts says outside of Jeremy Lane in 2012 the Seahawks have not drafted a single starter on Defense in the lower rounds since 2011 whereas they have drafted several starters on offense in the lower rounds. Your’ narrative is wrong
Carson is the only player who might be a starter and that’s if they don’t upgrade this offseason.
My narrative is not wrong.
Look at that list again. Not one player ( aside from Carson and I had earlier stated I don’t count this draft class as it still remains to be seen how the future unfolds) contributed anything to Seattle which is the only team I care about. Don’t care if Collins was drafted and did well in baltimore. don’t care if glowinski had a large cup of coffee in the league and sucked and then was summarily dismissed. don’t care if bowie played a few games and was canned.
You’re splitting hairs and for the sake of argument counting offensive players that started as contributed. Playing but being terrible like glowinski or playing and getting bumped to the practice squad like hunt is not contributing.
We’re talking about different things. I’m talking about solid contributions. Above team average and certainly with a positive net effect while playing for Seattle. A player that you can say “yes, that guy is pretty good and certainly not a problem, and perhaps a good/great get in the later rounds.”. And again it’s luke Wilson and hopefully Chris Carson as the only players in forever and the latter remains to be seen if he doesn’t come back like Thomas rawls.
Also this is my fault for not more clearly defining what I meant by contribution. I think if I had cleared it up from the beginning this would have been less an argument.
Even if you just say Luke Willson, and Chris Carson and discount other players that started for a year aka Glowinski, and JR Sweezy (2 year starter), that’s still more than defensive players of which there hasn’t been a single one.
Sure recently there hasn’t been. But it’s hard to count Carson in this draft without seeing if hill or Tyson play at all or even well moving forward. That’s sort of the only equitable way to do that. Plus I love Carson’s game but again there’s no way to know if he comes completely back until it happens.
And I’m not discounting anyone. The whole premise that this is built on is and I think we can both agreed is that a lot of fans have this idea that Seattle is magically great at finding late round talent when the reality is that they are not. Maybe they are the same overall league wide. Who knows.
And this is informed by the fact that Seattle found a world beating corner and safety late as well as a really pretty great lb late. so fans think this is always a possibility. All you and I proved through different angles is that this is actually not the norm.
And after many drafts and tons of late round players there really haven’t been that many good let alone great picks. Again maybe the LOB was so good that, that alone makes all the other picks worthwhile.
Is that true, or narrative?
I remember hearing that he wanted more targets – but I thought that was largely because Smith-Schuster overtook him, not because of Brown? If we want to go out and get someone who can actually score TDs he might be the best bet, because I don’t think we’ll be able to pony up for Allan Robinson.
The term box safety as applied to Derwin James is the single most laughable and inaccurate description I’ve ever seen on this blog, or virtually anywhere.
No matter how many times it is forced it will not gain in credibility.
Reshad Jones is a box safety. He is probably the best in the league from the safety position at crashing running plays from the perimeter, treating blockers with disdain. But Jones loses effectiveness with each step further removed from the line of scrimmage, to the point he’s a true liability in deep coverage.
Derwin James is exponentially more fluid and versatile and aware than Jones. That’s why there is so much intrigue on Dolphin forums at the possibility of pairing the two together. James’ name has come up as much if not more than any other prospect in potential for that #11 pick, along with Edmunds. If James were merely a box safety then none of the draft experts on those Dolphin sites would care about him at all, since the other safety T.J. McDonald could be described the same way. He is similar to Jones.
Perhaps in Florida we’ve seen Derwin James so so long we are not playing catch up on evaluation in months leading up to the draft. He was been a known quantity as a freak athlete since his high school days in Haines City as a 5 star prospect and considered the top safety recruit in the country. Nobody was surprised when he dominated as a true freshman. Subsequently there was an injury, and lots of varied roles and moving around as Florida State desperately tried to rationalize and patch an underperforming defense. But nobody in these parts was foolish enough to blame Derwin James or devalue him as supposedly a one dimensional player. That will earn scoffs.
The aspect of team leader was also a given, well known for years. That’s why it’s always valuable to catch these guys early and not pretend that a handful of late views is a full scope or all you need to know.
Do you want to chill out Awsi? We don’t use that tone on here to disagree with people. A gentle reminder this time.
As for your assessment of the use of ‘box safety’ — I know for a fact people in the league have used that term to describe him. Here’s a quote from a NFL scout:
“You won’t see a better looking guy physically but he just doesn’t make a lot of plays or factor a lot. More of a box safety. I don’t think he’ll run well. Lot of hype but didn’t deliver for me.”
More, from PFF’s analyst Steve Palazzolo: “If there’s a complaint about James in coverage, it’s his work as a deep free safety, where he can get turned around and he’s not your classic, sideline-to-sideline free safety. But like Collins, that’s a role in which he’s competent enough to play a handful of snaps per game without embarrassing himself.”
You know what you call a safety who can only play a handful of snaps at free safety without embarrassing himself? A box safety.
At the beginning of that piece, Palazzolo also refers to him as a “box safety,” although a good one who is more versatile than most in underneath coverage.
Also, exponentially doesn’t mean what you think it means. And if you are evaluating the guy based in part off his high school performance, even after you acknowledge he’s had a significant injury since then, YOU are the one whose evaluation needs to be reconsidered, not everybody else’s.
James can’t switch directions sometimes without tangling his feet. He’s not a natural cover guy at all. He’s basically an athlete with some pop. He doesn’t even dominate in games. A great play followed by 3 drives where you barely notice him. Not super impactful at this point.
I’m a huge fan myself. Dude’s an eraser. His closing speed is insane and I do think he’s gonna test extremely well. His tape from this year and knee injury will certainly be red flags. I see a bigger version of Jalen Ramsey.
Although, I think everyone’s play on that Florida St team this year was impacted by whatever the hell was going on with Jumbo Fisher.
Its not fair to comp these guys, and I’m guilty of it too I literally just did it, to these once in a generation talents. So because he didn’t live up to those expectations and he’s not the only one, it becomes a knock on him.
* Jimbo
He has physical traits… Can he cover? Can he dominate a game? His backpedal/transition of his feet aren’t special, that’s for sure.
We all want a Kam clone, but he was a mid-round pick and his impact was more pronounced in his college career, at least his last season. Maybe he can figure it out, but I don’t want to spend a high pick on maybe.
You know, Kam Chancellor is also a “box safety.” I mean, I know he was a fifth round pick so in one way it’s like apples and oranges. However, if we were to re-do that draft, some team would have taken him in the first round without question, and there isn’t one person who would be against that.
He’s been great at SS his whole career – the one thing he was unreliable in has always been coverage. Which is why he’s asked to do it far less.
If Derwin James is a more athletic Kam … it’s tough for me to say we should definitely pass.
Lance Zierlein has been talking up Kansas DE Dorance Armstrong Jr in a recent article for NFL.com
Should be a star at the combine with his size and athleticism combination.
6’4″ 241… was asked to play a run stopping DE/OLB in 2017, but had nice pass rush numbers from 2016.
It looks like he is currently ranked as a late 2nd round / 3rd round prospect.
Would he be a fit for Seattle?
If Seattle magically comes up with a late 2nd round pick/early 3rd round pick, would he be the best bang for the buck?
I asked about him two different times about 3-4 weeks ago and didnt get one response. From what I hear he is hard to judge as he played on a terrible Kansas defense. The combine could be huge for him.
Let’s see how he tests and see what his SPARQ / TEF and ever other measurable tell us about him.
I don’t think it was 3-4 weeks ago, but I’m pretty sure I responded to you once about him. Maybe it was someone else though.
Maybe you did and I didn’t see it.
Stop fighting, you guys.
I’ve only watched two games and it was very meh. I get he played for a terrible team but it seemed like in my very small sample size that he was would go for speed often and get washed out of the play.
Again it was a very very small sample size so I have no idea.
If you ask him to set the edge in the run game… you deserve what you get. Unrefined athlete who could be a nice project. I wouldn’t touch him before round 3-4.
You said it better than me. That’s almost specifically what less speaking to.
Damn! There are some triggered lads on the blog today isn’t there?
Lads is my new term I picked up on from my girl Becky Lynch (WWE) BTW.
We use lads all the time in England, along with mate, pal or mans if you’re from london. You’re welcome to borrow them all.
Agree with sentiment about some tempers flairing on the normally composed comment section
I use mans all the time. Didn’t know that’s where it came from though.
I hope the flared tempers hasn’t put anyone off commenting. It’s my responsibility to keep things cordial so I will do my best to get things back on track.
‘Lads’ is a fantastic term.
Aye, grand northern term that …. ‘lots o lads and lasses there aall wi smilin’ faces’
I prefer “Laddie” M8’s!
Go Rob
Go Hawks
Magnum P.I. character Higgins referred to his doberman pinschers as “the lads”.
Lads and ladettes.
“Bring me a flaggon on meade wynch”… that is always a crowd pleaser.
I’ll stick with Chyna (from old school WWE) she was awesome.
Here is a question of the day. I have been looking for potential trade partners and thought of the Patriots. Which would you rather have?
Option 1: Receive picks 41, 63, and 96 for 18
Option 2: Receive pick 31 and 63 for 18.
Option 2 you get to pick 10 spots earlier but you don’t get 96.
W/o knowing how the board looks and how FA has shaken out, I’d say option 1.
Option 2. You get the 5th year option if you use the pick, and more flexibility to trade down again for more picks if the board is falling your way.
+1.
Maybe this has been brought up and I missed it, but it’s in regards to Seattle’s coaching changes. While I do agree they need an infusion (probably the wrong word) of young talent on defense in some spots, could it be that going real young with these positional coaches is their answer to what the fans want? That it’ll reinvigorate the boys? Being around newer, fresher ideas and tendencies will in turn make the product on the field feel the same?
And where the hell have I been? Seattle brought Larry Izzo into the fold as a STs assistant? That’s about as good of a hire for that group as you’ll get.
I think infusion is the exact word to use.
+1
I think these hires might say it wasn’t so much a talent issue, but a coaching issue.
The talent has been there on defense. Health? Coordination? Richard struck me as in over his head as dc.
I think the FO had the right idea last year looking to add an interior rusher to this particular defense. That was really the missing ingredient. Turned out a snowballing disaster for 2017. Would be very curious to see what Tim Settle would bring were he available acknowledging all of our outstanding needs. A penetrating DT would help make everyone else appear faster.
On a side note, I wish ET wasn’t talking holdout. Might force things in a direction no one wants them to go.
I keep thinking Seattle will trade back in the first round. This is all speculation since we do not know how the draft will play out and I think they will wait until pick #15 to decide what to do.
Buffalo might be a likely candidate for a 2 stage trade.
Stage #1 would be Buffalo trading #22 (780) and #96 (116) to Seattle for #18 (900), the value lines up pretty darn close.
Stage #2 would then be Cleveland trading #35 (550) and #65 (265) to Seattle for #22 (780) and #141 (35)
This would end up having Seattle with some 2nd and 3rd round picks.
Upside is more early round picks….. downside, no 1st round pick and likely miss out on some of the blogs draft darlings.
here is a fun article with thoughts of the Seahawks trading back.
https://seahawkswire.usatoday.com/2018/02/20/nfl-draft-5-ideal-first-round-trade-down-options-for-seahawks/
Looking through the roster you just think what this team could be with some solid contributions from guys who were drafted the last two years, such as:
Carson, Prosise, Hill, Vannett, Jones, improvement from Ifedi and Pocic. I think this is one of the biggest things that can turn this team around.
Agree. Generally speaking, Hawk rookies (especially on D) tend to need a season of indoctrination, and contribute well in their second season.
Your right, its easier when its on the D Line or even corner as you can get in there from time to time. But Safety and LB are harder because those guys never come off the field so they can never really get any snaps.
I like the core DL of Reed-Jones-Clark-Bennett with perhaps Dion Jordan, Q Jefferson, and Marcus Smith returning. Possibility of Sheldon coming back and/or Draft Pick & other reclamation projects.
* McDowell too hopefully.
+1
They need more of the guys drafted over the last couple years to make leaps.
the upgrade on the field will have to come from 2nd and 3rd year guys, lots of rookies don’t play much. NO striking gold with 4 rookies is rare. Would be nice to see it from the hawks though
I would sign James Carpenter, Bradley McDougald, Bruce Irvin, Eric Reid and Carlos Hyde in free agency.
No bad players, I just wonder how many (if any) UFA’s they will sign due to the comp pick process. Street free agents or post June 1 free agents dont count against com picks. Its all for sure good debate and we will find out soon enough.
I can’t see the case for the raiders cutting irvin.
He isn’t making stupid money. If you cut him can you get someone better for the same money or less? I doubt it.
Unless they love someone in the draft they can use to replace him, but even then, you’re never sure.
They are in striking distance to go and get Chubb, but is their roster that set otherwise that they can afford to give up picks?
I dont see them cutting Irvin either. Not sure the Hawks would go after him though because he would still command some bigger dollars and he is almost 31 so thats not younger and cheaper. He would have no dead money though. If any of you enjoy the salary cap as much as I do go look at how the Raiders do most of there contracts. There are no signing bonuses just roster bonuses. They do pay out a lot of money and have bigger cap hits in the first two years but they wont have any dead money after the first two years, very interesting.
Yeah they’ve done a good job.
They set the contracts(all the guys they signed 2 years ago) to have no dead money when Carr and Mack needed to be paid.
Gave them the choice of who they cut.
There have been several articles in the last few weeks talking about Irvin being cut.. for whatever reasons… and why not bring him back to Seattle. He seems to follow the new DC round where ever he goes 😉
I get all that, and it’d be nice.
A good portion of his production happened after Norton was fired though.
The Raiders are well within their rights to cut him, but it doesn’t make sense. Why, when all any raiders fan says this offseason is ‘Mack needs help” do you cut the 1 guy who’s helping get pressure on the QB?
Unless you thought there another Mack sitting there in the upcoming draft.
I just don’t see it if he gets cut. We need to get younger and cheaper on defense . You sign him for $5-$6 million and now your even older.
I can only see Irvin coming in on a one year minimum deal if he gets cut. Maybe a sweet bonus structure like $100k per sack or something.
That’s never going to happen.
There’ll be another team willing to cough up some dollars.
Exactly. That’s the bar the Hawks will probably set so why it won’t happen.
Trade earl, trade bennet, sign richardson, keep sherman. tag jimmy, let prich go.
hopefully kam and cliff retire
I could be good with all of that except tagging Jimmy. First it would cost around $15 million to tag him and I dont want him anyways. Good to see you back nichansen.
Yeah, it’s too expensive to tag Graham. Without having the kind of insight the team has, extending Richardson would make me nervous. If Irvin is cut that makes too much sense.
Where are you guys getting $15 million? That was the WR tag going into last offseason. TE was just under $10 million. I would tag him just for the sake of controlling him and possibly trading him for a pick. Supposedly the team doesn’t want to tag Sheldon.
it is $15 million because of his previous tag and something with how his payments were structured. Joel Corry put it out there a while ago to explain it
I think if a players previous contract is already higher than the tag for his position they get 120% of their last wage instead
Which includes the prorated portion of their signing bonus.
This offseason has so many question marks. I feel like a Pachinko game has a better chance of predicting what happens than I do.
Regarding the tier list, the only thing I believe differently from my limited film study is that Tim Settle is superior to Maurice Hurst. Maybe that’s just me.
The challenge is there are many hinging variables that the FO can’t 100% plan for.
* Earl Thomas’ contract extension demands and his value on the trade market
* Sherman’s injury progress and his value on the trade market
* The riddle wrapped in an enigma that is Malik McDowell
* All the Q’s about Sheldon…does he want to stay/is someone going to offer him gonzo $
* What is the overall FA market like?
* Are Avril & Kam ever going to play again?
etc etc etc
So it’s not just as easy as “the Hawks should trade this guy or sign that guy”
The Hawks won’t make a move without fully exploring all the options & implications.
Its for sure going to be very difficult. The same goes for free agency. You cant just say , oh get this guy and get that guy. There is 31 other teams trying to get better as well so your right, the job will be very difficult this off-season.
they can only “act”so much, they will have to “react” more as situations become clarified. Hard to make a decision when someone else controls part of that decision. Every team goes through it, to varying degrees, depending on their roster and contract status.
A possible UFA reclamation project for the Seahawks is DE/OLB Trent Murphy. He’s coming off of a suspended/injury missed 2017 season. Former 2nd round Stanford guy. Had 9 sacks in 2016. Top combine performer in the 3 cone drill. Would he play on a team friendly prove it deal?
Is he a UFA? If he missed a whole season he might be an RFA
Looks like he is a UFA. Thats for sure a good project idea.
I really like Duke Ejiofor as a prospect for the Hawks. He could fill that Bennett inside/outside role at 6′ 4″ 270.
https://seahawkswire.usatoday.com/2018/02/23/prospect-profile-ejiofor-could-be-new-duke-of-seahawks-pass-rush/2/
!7.5 sacks and 31.5 TFL’s last two seasons.
Big fan of his. Watched a bunch of stuff and was surprised by how many moves he had. Plus a great understanding of how the play was moving.
Seems like a perfect Seattle pass Rusher to me. They want assignment sound guys with discipline
With the combine finally upon us, can someone review the various benchmarks that the Seahawks have seemed to use for various positions? Arm length, height, SPARQ and so forth?
And is there any speculation that any of those measurements might be different due to the influence of new members of the coaching staff?
Just trying to get my pencil sharpened in preparation.
The main ones I remember is 32″ arm length for corners. Defensive lineman with a 10 yard split in the 1.5’s. The TEF score which Rob created for offensive lineman (this might be out the window now with Tom Cable gone).
I’m pretty sure 3 cone was one that indicated a guy would be on the Seahawks watchlist….
specifically for RB and LB. Broad jump and Vertical jump were keys to Christine Micheal getting drafted.. since he had an unreal combine/pro day.
It would be fun to see a DT go faster than 5.0 in the 40…. a big guy running fast is amazing.
3 cone for any de as well not just lb’s.
Hmmm, I’m in the middle of midterms right now, but if someone has time maybe they could look back and see if there are some common physical thresholds for Solari-coached lines?
Any opinions on Northern Arizona WR Emmanuel Butler as a day 3 target? Big bodied at 220, super physical, catches well, looks athletic, high effort. He’s coming off a serious shoulder injury that derailed his 2017. Played without his starting QB most of 2016. Very impressive on tape, albeit against lesser competition. Perhaps a bit similar to David Moore?
Kind of on the same vein of my question about measureables, anybody have some individuals who will change their draft positions a great deal by the performance or other elements in the combine? In other words, is there somebody to focus on? For me, I am looking forward to seeing how Vita Vea moves. What kind of quick splits will we see from Tim Settle?
Will any high pick candidates bomb out? The interviews, while not publicized, can have a big effect on how teams look at players. But, it is difficult to judge those reactions.
Are we looking at a specific player, like John Ross, last time, to do a big time shot?
I love this.
Big one for me is Nick Chubb, his combine permance will determine if he goes early second, or even first, or slips down to the third or fourth.
Yeah if Chubb tests we’ll and (more importantly) his knee tests well medically he probably vaults into the top RB group with Barkley and Jones.
+1
I’m kinda anticipating Chubb might have a performance that puts him right back into R1 consideration.
I hope Chubb goes in Round #1 but I pray it is not with us!
Chubb is one that I’m rooting for, so hopefully everything works out, for him. If he is still as explosive as he was before the knee injury and the knee is medically fine then I think Chubb could be the second RB taken, after Barkley.
Idk If he can jump that high.. teams will be wary of that knee even if it checks out. I don’t think anyone will spend a top 15 on him, even though he deserves it
Chubb was so good pre-injury, and really, damn good after. If he checks out as healthy he is a perfect Seahawks RB. I love Jones, but Chubb’s upside is probably higher due to his freakish athleticism, size, and physicality.
Just for fun….And maybe a bit of bragging rights….who in this thread do you all think of the runningbacks will put on the best show?
who are you most interested to see if they’ve got some hidden explosion?
I think it’s going to chubb, jones, michel….explosion being measured mostly in the jumping drills but I think chubb is probably grinding 225 for reps as we speak for good measure.
I’m kind of hoping jaylen samuels tests with the rb’s. Watching him move I think he’s going to put up some good short area drills, same with Kelly and jones again in the three cone.
I don’t think it changes Seattle of either of these players but Kerryon Johnson is a hard hitter but doesn’t really jump out to me so it’ll be I interesting to see his results. ALternately i ‘m intrigued how his opposite Royce Freeman shows out.
LSU DB Donte’ ‘Cheetah’ Jackson might come close to a John Ross like 40 time.
Do you know what was the first team Backey Brooks mentioned when he spoke about Lamar Jackson?
Seahawks!
He spoke about Russ’s contract and Jackson as a potential successor.
Well, that will certainly make Davis Hsu happy.
I’m going to guess that Bucky isn’t privy to how much Seattle wants to address its run game with only one pick in the first three rounds.
Is he still on about RW being the problem?
That championship ring on his finger has his throwing motion all out of sorts. Probably better off with a qb who doesn’t carry such a burden.
I don’t think he ever jumped off it. I think he tapered his rhetoric a bit when he tweeted that his “source” said John Schnieder thinks he’s the greatest thing since sliced bread and the offseason goal is to further build the offense around him.
Off topic a little but I was looking at potential free agents the Seahawks could go for if they have a soft market and Daquan Jones from Tennessee jumps out at me. Can play inside and outside but mostly inside doing dirty work that doesnt get recognized.
Cool. Seems like exactly the type of low profile guy they could take a look at. (I’ll be honest, the name doesn’t even ring a bell for me…)
Thats OK, he barely rang the bell for me. Thats how it works some times with these run stuffing DT’s. How about Justin Ellis (Raiders)? He is another one, he is more of a nose tackle type, not much in QB pressure but a beast against the run.
Will all depend, of course, on what happens with Sheldon. If they decide to keep him around (which I think they will unless he prices himself out or somehow a great trade offer pops up), I think they are deep enough with him, Reed, Naz, Garrison Smith, and QJeff who can rush inside on 3rd and long.
I do wonder though how intrigued they might be by Settle. If they could somehow come up with a package to tag and trade Sheldon + R5 for a R2 pick and replace him with Settle on a rookie deal, wouldn’t that be something! Get younger and cheaper on defense…
I would love that. Tagging him would be the only way to do it and it doesnt look like they will. I agree as they really wouldnt need free agency for that position if they resign Sheldon. Im just guessing that they wont. If he makes it to free agency Im guessing he is gone. Maybe we keep him a day or two before like they did Bennett a while back.
The tough part about tagging Sheldon is that if you can’t trade him you’re on the hook for $14m. So meanwhile you’re looking to trade him you’re also holding your salary cap hostage in terms of what you can do in free agency. So while teams are signing players left and right that the Seahawks could otherwise pursue, they are stuck with big contract.
Unless there’s a way for them to know beforehand that a team would do a trade for Richardson. That way, the team could franchise him and then trade him straight away. Of course, there would need to be a deal worked out with Richardson and the aforementioned team.
What the team will probably do is let him walk in FA and score a 2019 3rd. If you were to trade him, you would probably net a 2018 3rd best-case anyway. May as well have more autonomy and get the 3rd albeit a year delayed.
In my opinion, the Seahawks don’t have the luxury of re-signing Jimmy Graham.
When Graham was acquired, the Seahawks had the most front-line talent on their team of anyone in the league. Adding Jimmy Graham was like the cherry on top that was supposed to make them the Golden State Warriors of the NFL (it didn’t).
Now, the Seahawks have been humbled and their roster is not what it once was. Age and big contracts have brought the team back down to earth. The team needs to focus resources not on boom or bust playmakers like Graham, but on solid contributors with team-friendly contracts who can contribute to building the team back up right away.
I think the biggest things the Seahawks need to do are re-sign Byron Maxwell and Bradley McDougald.
Maxwell is a Seattle corner – he will never be as good anywhere else as he is here. Re-signing him would ensure the Seahawks have a deep CB group that can hold their own in the secondary. Pair him with Shaq Griffin, and the Seahawks are ensuring the vitality of their DB group.
McDougald proved himself last year by playing extremely solid D at SS. With the versatility to play both position, he also hedges an Earl injury. He also acts as a hedge if Delano Hill doesn’t make big strides in year two.
These players seem like afterthoughts at times, but I think re-signing the both of them is a necessary boost this team needs. It’s hard to envision this team being better without them.
It would be nice to get PRich back, but the team needs to focus resources on that which made the team great in the first place. Replenishing the defense is step one toward “winning forever” to quote PC.
I don’t understand how signing two JAG players is better than Jimmy Graham. Maxwell is old and even though he is good in coverage the speed isn’t there anymore. McDougold is a good depth piece, not someone you want starting 16 games. Seattle needs to get younger and faster, resigning those two for average play will not make us a better team.
do you think they should resign graham? for how much? Because Maxwell and McDougall could probably be had for the same cost as graham.
I wonder what was going on with him this year. He was so explosive the year before but seemed to be lumbering most of the season. If they sign him I hope he can balance the two years out a bit because you need to move the chains as much as you need the tds.
I would prefer that we didn’t resign any of those 3. Jimmy Graham is a low effort player who unless he takes a team friendly deal isn’t going to be worth it. Its a good draft for big receivers anyways. I also think that McDougold and Maxwell will be more available than the blog realizes. McDougold might go start for a bottom feeder team like the browns but Maxwell is pretty much certain to be available during the season, hes old, he’s slow, and he doesn’t have a fantastic injury history. Would much rather see the roster spot given to Elliot or Tyson. I mean he’s going to be on the bench anyways
Leave spots open on the roster for young players and UDFAs, the seahawks have enough veteran players on their roster.
The market for McDougald was ice cold last year. To the point JS and PC publicly said they were shocked and pleasantly surprised they were able to get him.
I don’t know why, but maybe that will happen again this year. Maybe.
He is great in man coverage on tight ends and is a decent slot defender, more quick than fast, and isn’t your typical eraser type free safety that most teams look for, he’s also not a great tackler or a playmaker in run support
But he’s remarkably consistent, and the seahawks likely value that while a lot of other teams are willing to suffice for boom or bust playmakers. I imagine NE would have interest in him at a back up price.
The seahawks fan base also loves him because he really helped our tight end problem, which was very satisfying after years of bad coverage on Tight Ends
Graham is worse than a Jag on a team. He is an ultra talented but soft and low effort player with awful body language. We know why the Saints traded him now.
Had a horrible drop rate outside of the red zone.
Yeah its true, he doesn’t carry himself like a winner after a bad play. I’m not accusing him of not wanting it or anything. Personally i think we will see him in Green Bay with Rodgers. The Hawks will go get their big receiver, and i bet it will be much earlier than expected
2019 2nd round + 2018 4th round for Marcu Peters + 2018 6th.
Doesn’t sound good for potential ET and RS trades.
I would think that ET would have more of a market, but yes, it doesn’t look great.
Just keep Earl. We can’t do better than him, even if we get a first round pick, probably.
The argument for trading him is “Well, if you’re rebuilding, you might as well get something for him while you can.” That’s true, but there’s nothing guaranteed about a high(er) draft pick.
I don’t disagree with this. I just hope they give him a short front loaded contract so if he does get a jam level injury they can get out quickly like pulling off a bandage.
I think the argument is that you don’t want to pay a guy hitting his 30’s who is dependent on his speed a 3rd contract especially if he wants Eric Berry money.
Giving a 3rd contract has already backfired with Kam, you don’t want to repeat it.
I think that a trade at this point would be a team comparing Earl or Sherm against this draft class at FS and CB specifically. It’s more telling for Shermans value than Earls. I think Earl is worth a 1st vs incoming FS class.
That is the sort of argument that Seahawks use to justify giving away a first round draft pick and paying a 10+ million dollar salary. What your ignoring is that the draft pick is a lot cheaper for 5 years. And even if you don’t like the players available in round one, surely you don’t mind trading down a couple times for two second round picks?
Having a worse player at a cheaper rate doesn’t make the team better.
The problem is that we don’t know when age and injuries will slow his career.
You can say the same of every rookie in the draft. Earls injury history really isn’t that extensive. He’s missed a few games and had one freak leg break, but he’s had more 16 game seasons than Bobby Wagner and no one is trying to boot him out the door for Tremaine Edmunds
Certainly indicates that Peters was more of a problem than we realize. Earl has never been that and is also a hall of fame player, he would take a first round pick, but nobodies going to do it, and it still wouldn’t be worthwhile because its just making a hole in the roster that might cover up another area of concern.
I think this Peters trade would backfire wire nicely in the Rams
Wade Phillips is the perfect coach for him. His whole career he’s dealt with combustible personalities.
perhaps, but his former GM had a chance to get him cheap and would not out bid the Rams for a relatively low cost. Maybe he turns it around with the Rams, or maybe he gets worse. I would suspect he has some type of un-diagnosed personality disorder or extreme anger issues that may not be coachable.
but from the Rams perspective, probably worth a shot. They get 2 years of pretty cheap control. The Hawks gave up a 2nd and Kearse to get 1 year of Sheldon at a higher salary, and he had his share of issues with the Jets.
If I can criticize JS on his track record, he overpaid for Percy, JG and Sheldon. He gave up high picks for guys with high salaries. Lots of NFL players get traded for peanuts when they have high salaries. That is why I doubt they trade Earl, very few other GM’s will pay a high price for 1 year of Earl.
+1
You are right Vol if any coaches can get through to Peters I would have guessed Pete or Phillips
Andy Reid has suspended 2 players in his career and is a players coach, some guys are just a problem. Theres more than just walking off the field, and incident on the bus and choking a coach. The guy is clearly Harvin-like.
The FS position is so critical to Pete’s Cover 3/Cover 1 defense that I expect Earl to stick around into his early 30s. That being said, I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s dealt too. However, I would want nothing less than a top 15 1st this year and a third next year. I really feel like Earl is going to get an extension that will keep him here until around age 32 or 33, with options for the team on the back end to part ways should he continue to have injury problems and miss games. Also think Sherm will stay for 2018 then leave in free agency.
It would be ballsy of them to trade him but I would be good either way. Just wish you could be a fly on the wall in those meetings to here what they are thinking.
I knew there was no chance a team would pay a 1st for Peters. The GM that drafted him Dorsey has more draft capital than anyone did not even wanted him.
I compared him to us trading for Beast Mode and the return was about the same. Great talent but huge risk.
I am surprised JS never tried Shem + a 5th just to take flier on Peters but in PC/JS I trust when it comes to this. Perhaps they are just tired of locker room drama.
Certainly makes you question what if any market there would be for Sherm, Bennett and even Earl. Strong personalities with big contracts.
They may have asked, you never know. I dont think the low trade value would have much affect on Thomas if they tried to trade him. Earl is a weird dude but hes not a drama queen like Peters. The days are getting closer to free agency and I cant wait for the action to heat up.
Yeah it will be nice to see where they are headed prior to draft so we can focus potential targets etc.
Very frustrating to see Seattle consistently had out huge hauls their trade targets, while an elite shutdown corners goes for a 4th and 2nd. I get that he has a Percy Harvin-ish persona, but we traded a lot more for Harvin.
and we got very little when they traded a healthy Harvin to New York.
I understand that fieldgulls is against taking a first round RB, but in my opinion if you believe you’ve found your guy, you run to the podium. In their latest RB article is kind of flawed comparing RB by round chosen isn’t always fair. Higher round RB usually get the immediate start or heavily cut into the workload, later round backs usually either get light loads or less frequency of the load. That can skew injuries. Ideally a team would have a bruiser and a slasher. If you believe that Carson might be able to punish the defense, Ronald Jones would take advantage of tired defenses, you try to put them together. Plus if Prosise can finally put his body back in place, you get a great rotation of RB talent on the roster.
Personally, if we leave with RJ, Austin Corbett, Smythe, Griffin, Toliver and possibly cole Madison or Mataafa I’ll be thrilled. We are most likely another season out from building out the roster but I’m hoping we rebuild our team and culture with great, hungry, high character players
Out of curioisity, what does the r&d department of fieldgulls say Seattle should draft at 18? Is there a position with significantly lower “bust,” rate?
I’m genuinely interested because it seems to me the bust rate or if not “bust rate,” but certainly draft redo rate is pretty high for every position . If I had to guess it seems like inside backer and the super rarely drafted right guard as right guard might be the lowest bust rates…
How about a field goal kicker? Based on last years results that would improve the Seahawks record by at least 2 games a season. 🙂
There are a few place kickers that MAY get drafted in the later rounds, Carlson, Badgley, Pineiro & Oakes. The others may have strong legs and decent stats, however, IMO, Griffin Oakes is the most consistent of these place kickers and because of said consistency, he needs to be one of the Seahawks 7-th Rd. picks.
PK-Griffin Oakes, Indiana; Currently ranked #224-overall, projected Rd-7/UDFA.
2017: 16 of 17 on field goals, (94.1%) with a long of 51-yds. 38 for 39 on extra points, (97.4%) – NOTE: Both of these misses were blocks! 1 for 2 at 50+, Oakes was 2-nd in FBS in field goal %, in 2017 he was a perfect 15 for 15 inside 50, including 4 for 4 from 40-49-yds. CAREER: 147 for 154, 95.5% on extra points & 69 for 90, 76.7% on field goals.
I also like Punters Trevor Daniel (47.5-yds/punt, long 72) & Johnny Townsend (47.5-yds/punt, long 70) as UDFA’s as opposed to the Ray Guy award winner Michael Dickson (47.4-yds/punt, long 76) because Dickson, even though he has a strong leg and good hang time, he will likely require a Rd-5/6/7 draft pick that could be better utilized elsewhere for the Seahawks.
The bust rate is safer at linebacker, o lineman and d lineman. The best rate is about 33% for RB but that includes injury situations that prematurely ended careers
One thing that I was thinking about is how the Seahawks always like to give out 4 year contacts versus the normal 5. I wonder if they might start to rethink this after some of these recent third contracts that have failed. If they are giving out 4 year extensions after the third year of there rookie contract they have to make decisions after 7/8 years for a possible third contract. Maybe they start giving out 5 year extensions so they can have that player for an extra year at the end. Im guessing they do it for cap flexibility so if they have to cut bait they dont have a lot of dead money. We could of avoided Kams situation and both Sherman and Earl would still have 2 years left instead of 1. Just something I have been thinking about.
The prospect of seeing 25 prospects who have broken into tears is compelling.
I’ll just step away from the mic.
I’d personally like to keep Earl, or at best trade him to a team (AFC) that we don’t have to face for a few more years sans the Super Bowl. You think JAX would be interested in Earl for pick #29? Was playing around with the draft value chart and came up with an interesting scenario if JAX were to bite.
Trade picks 18 and 29 to CLE for 33, 34, 64, 101 and 138. (the math actually works) Since the Hawks already own picks 141 and 148, this would give them seven of the top 148 picks. I haven’t gotten as far as who they would use these picks for, but I wondered what you all would think about such a scenario? It would be a bold move and we might miss out on some the guy’s that Rob has been highlighting, but imagine getting seven new players who might have chips on their shoulders for not getting selected higher! I think that might be just what this team needs. Not sure if CLE would even do it, but the prospect of having four first-round picks might tempt them.
Tony Pauline has been a nice resource, but his pre-combine draft has us taking a WR? Can I get a dose of whatever it is he is taking? It seemed for a time that he had at least a clue of what the Seahawks were about, but this sincerely shakes my opinion.